Postcards

[FROGSMILE]

Super picture of a TF Battery with some men wearing imperial service tablets and/or shoulder titles and others not.  The fellow with the medal ribbons is almost certainly a regular and the permanent staff instructor.

[GWF1967]

Armoured Car and truck mounted searchlight?

 There is a visible name plate on the front of the truck, but I'm unable to properly make it out.   It looks like  "Minathens"

Edited 17 October , 2021 by GWF1967

[FROGSMILE]

Looks like some sort of jamboree.  There’s a band in front and at the rear a party of Boy Scouts and someone dressed as a goose, all being observed by civilians in a stand as part of an audience.  The armoured car has had its rivets painted in a contrasting colour which is a not uncommon practice when attempting to make vehicles look impressive in peacetime conditions.

Afternote.  Looking more carefully I can see that the ‘Armoured Car’ is in fact an ordinary motor car mocked up using painted canvas, so hence the rather distinct ‘rivets’.  I must confess that gave me a sense of deja vu as I was once required to do exactly the same thing and for the same reason by a very eccentric colonel using a land rover and painted plywood.

 

Edited 25 October , 2021 by FROGSMILE

[MikeyH]

Think that the truck is a Maudslay, from the radiator shape and profile.

Mike.

[CorporalPunishment]

affc

22 minutes ago, MikeyH said:

Think that the truck is a Maudslay, from the radiator shape and profile.

Mike.

It's a Tilling-Stevens.     Pete.

[RNCVR]

1 hour ago, FROGSMILE said:

Looks like some sort of jamboree.  There’s a band in front ....

Might be an RM drum & fife/bugle band. The bandsmen in the rear rank appear to be carrying fifes.& a bugle can be Sen by the bandsman with his back to us, behiind the bass drummer.

Edited 17 October , 2021 by RNCVR

[FROGSMILE]

7 minutes ago, RNCVR said:

Might be an RM drum & fife band. The bandsmen in the rear rank appear to be carrying fifes.

Yes definitely fifes, they have fife cases affixed to the front right of their waistbelts.  I don’t think they are Royal Marines though as they’re wearing frocks without any collar badge.  The khaki drill clothing worn by the vehicle crews indicates a warm weather station and so the Army band are wearing white Wolseley helmets.  They appear to have two piece shoulder titles suggesting perhaps light Infantry.

Edited 17 October , 2021 by FROGSMILE

[GWF1967]

23 hours ago, CorporalPunishment said:

affc

It's a Tilling-Stevens.     Pete.

Great stuff. Many thanks Pete. 

 

On 17/10/2021 at 21:27, FROGSMILE said:

 The armoured car has had its rivets painted in a contrasting colour which is a not uncommon practice when attempting to make vehicles look impressive in peacetime conditions.

 

Thanks for your observations. 

[GWF1967]

U.118.  "Washed ashore at Hastings"

[GWF1967]

"Bienchen".   Little creatures.

[FROGSMILE]

1 hour ago, GWF1967 said:

Cracking photograph.

Yes, did you notice the boat necked woollen gansey that he wears beneath his KD frock?  Although warm, that would not have been comfortable directly against his skin.  Very different times! 

1 hour ago, GWF1967 said:

"Bienchen".   Little creatures.

Chats! and so chatting…

Edited 9 December , 2021 by FROGSMILE

[FROGSMILE]

@rearpeerer: did I not answer your questions sufficiently?

[trooper23]

On 17/10/2021 at 00:22, FROGSMILE said:

Super picture of a TF Battery with some men wearing imperial service tablets and/or shoulder titles and others not.  The fellow with the medal ribbons is almost certainly a regular and the permanent staff instructor.

Only 12% (3 out of 25 individuals with their right chest visible) and NON of the SNO's have the imperial service tablets. Is this typical? I say this because I would have expected essentially ALL of the SNO's to have volunteered.

[FROGSMILE]

15 hours ago, trooper23 said:

Only 12% (3 out of 25 individuals with their right chest visible) and NON of the SNO's have the imperial service tablets. Is this typical? I say this because I would have expected essentially ALL of the SNO's to have volunteered.

I don’t think it was pressurised to that degree initially.  There was certainly an impetus contrived later on (the take up was nothing like what was hoped for), but in the early stages it was generally something urged upon the younger, unmarried men, who it was expected would have the youthful yearning for adventure and a typical (of youth) disregard for danger.  Conversely, most of the SNCOs were older men with children and even ailing parents to consider, and in addition the commanding officers were not keen to risk their more committed and experienced men either (plus of course resistance from wives).  Ergo there was quite a light touch in seeking volunteers for Imperial Service initially.

Edited 11 December , 2021 by FROGSMILE

[apt50]

Unknown member of Cyclist Corps

A photograph of an unidentified soldier, which has come down the family, but apparently not connected.Twelve years ago, I sent a copy to what at the time I thought was the relevant local heritage group, which posted portions of the photograph showing cap badge and the badge on the tunic on the relevant sub-forum of Rootschat. The replies expressed agreement that the cap badge was Cyclist Corps and identified the tunic badge as the Imperial Service Obligation. Nothing more has come to light.  

In the probably forlorn hope there there might be more to find from the photograph (and that it is 1914-1918), this is a possibly better scan of the photograph. I suspect there is little more to be discovered - not much can be seen of the shoulders and the mark on the photograph does not help. However any suggestions as to the  possible time range of the photograph or suggestions at to the age of the subject  or about anything else  would be received gratefully. Otherwise, there is a uniform, a cap badge and it is a postcard, so would appear eligible for this thread!

[FROGSMILE]

On 15/12/2021 at 00:03, apt50 said:

Unknown member of Cyclist Corps

A photograph of an unidentified soldier, which has come down the family, but apparently not connected.Twelve years ago, I sent a copy to what at the time I thought was the relevant local heritage group, which posted portions of the photograph showing cap badge and the badge on the tunic on the relevant sub-forum of Rootschat. The replies expressed agreement that the cap badge was Cyclist Corps and identified the tunic badge as the Imperial Service Obligation. Nothing more has come to light.  

 

In the probably forlorn hope there there might be more to find from the photograph (and that it is 1914-1918), this is a possibly better scan of the photograph. I suspect there is little more to be discovered - not much can be seen of the shoulders and the mark on the photograph does not help. However any suggestions as to the  possible time range of the photograph or suggestions at to the age of the subject  or about anything else  would be received gratefully. Otherwise, there is a uniform, a cap badge and it is a postcard, so would appear eligible for this thread!

 

It’s a 1905 pattern service dress cap and so suggests fairly early in the war, probably 1915 just after the corps was formed:

“On the eve of the First World War, the Territorial Force stood at a strength of fourteen cyclist battalions. Ten of these were Territorial battalions of regular infantry regiments, whilst four - the Northern, Highland, Kent, and Huntingdonshire Cyclists - were independent battalions without regimental affiliation.”

“The TF was intended to be a home defence force for service during wartime and members could not be compelled to serve outside the country. However, on the outbreak of war on 4 August 1914, many members volunteered for Imperial Service [for which the tablet was awarded].  Therefore, TF units were split in August and September 1914 into 1st Line (liable for overseas service) and 2nd Line (home service for those unable or unwilling to serve overseas) units. Later, a 3rd Line was formed to act as a reserve, providing trained replacements for the 1st and 2nd Line regiments.“

“On the outbreak of the First World War, the cyclist battalions were employed on Coastal Defences in the United Kingdom. Their role was considered to be so important that, initially, none of them were sent overseas.  In 1915, the Army Cyclist Corps was founded to encompass these battalions; it later extended to cover a dozen more battalions raised from second-line yeomanry regiments that had been converted to cyclists.“

NB.  The combination of early style cap and shiny tablet suggests it’s probable then that the fellow in your photo was an early member of the corps who had volunteered for overseas service, but was perhaps sent to guard the coast and not immediately sent abroad.  He also has a pristine jacket and unplaited lanyard (generally affixed to a clasp knife) at his left shoulder, as per regulation.  More experienced soldiers tended to plait their lanyards to shorten them.

Edited 17 December , 2021 by FROGSMILE

[JOVE23]

Here's a bit of a poser for the folks here.

The caption of this photo seems to imply all three of these soldaten are in Leib-Garde Regt. Nr. 8. Why, then, does the man on the left not have collar litzen and the man on the right have such different litzen than the man in the center and (I'm guessing) gold tresse? I'm guessing there was some sort of private purchase involved for one of the three men because Nr. 8 was one of the elite regiments of the Army, but I would have thought the uniforms would have been a bit more uniform if they're all from the same regiment!

[FROGSMILE]

47 minutes ago, JOVE23 said:

Here's a bit of a poser for the folks here.

The caption of this photo seems to imply all three of these soldaten are in Leib-Garde Regt. Nr. 8. Why, then, does the man on the left not have collar litzen and the man on the right have such different litzen than the man in the center and (I'm guessing) gold tresse? I'm guessing there was some sort of private purchase involved for one of the three men because Nr. 8 was one of the elite regiments of the Army, but I would have thought the uniforms would have been a bit more uniform if they're all from the same regiment!

The best people to advise are @GreyCand @AOK4.

[apt50]

On 15/12/2021 at 09:11, FROGSMILE said:

It’s a 1905 pattern service dress cap and so suggests fairly early in the war, probably 1915 just after the corps was formed:

“On the eve of the First World War, the Territorial Force stood at a strength of fourteen cyclist battalions. Ten of these were Territorial battalions of regular infantry regiments, whilst four - the Northern, Highland, Kent, and Huntingdonshire Cyclists - were independent battalions without regimental affiliation.”

“The TF was intended to be a home defence force for service during wartime and members could not be compelled to serve outside the country. However, on the outbreak of war on 4 August 1914, many members volunteered for Imperial Service [for which the tablet was awarded].  Therefore, TF units were split in August and September 1914 into 1st Line (liable for overseas service) and 2nd Line (home service for those unable or unwilling to serve overseas) units. Later, a 3rd Line was formed to act as a reserve, providing trained replacements for the 1st and 2nd Line regiments.“

“On the outbreak of the First World War, the cyclist battalions were employed on Coastal Defences in the United Kingdom. Their role was considered to be so important that, initially, none of them were sent overseas.  In 1915, the Army Cyclist Corps was founded to encompass these battalions; it later extended to cover a dozen more battalions raised from second-line yeomanryregiments which had been converted to cyclists.“

NB.  The combination of early style cap and shiny tablet suggests it’s probable then that the fellow in your photo was an early member of the corps who had volunteered for overseas service, but was perhaps sent to guard the coast and not immediately sent abroad.  He also has a pristine jacket and unplaited lanyard (generally affixed to a clasp knife) at his left shoulder, as per regulation.  More experienced soldiers tended to plait their lanyards to shorten them.

Thank you for your reply, which has added considerably to what I know about the photograph.

[SHJ]

On 15/12/2021 at 00:03, apt50 said:

"Unknown member of Cyclist Corps

A photograph of an unidentified soldier, which has come down the family, but apparently not connected..."

 

If it has come down the family he probably is connected in some way.  Since the card was made in Nottingham....   The photo might have been taken at the Alan Rufford studio while he (or his unit) was passing through the area or maybe it was taken while on leave near home.  Have you checked the family history to see who lived in Nottingham at this time?

 

[Margaretnolan]

[apt50]

11 hours ago, SHJ said:

Have you checked the family history to see who lived in Nottingham at this time?

Possible family branches from which the photograph might have originally come were all near each other on one or other side of the Notts/Derbyshire boundary.  There are no family members known to me that would match the subject of the photograph. If the photograph was taken in Nottingham it certainly suggests a connection with the area and in view of the locations of the family, a photograph taken on leave would seem most likely.

I am unsure as to the etiquette regarding the distribution of these studio photographs or as to the usual occasions when they would be taken.  Most of the small number of this type of photograph that are in my possession, seem to have been taken in the areas where the subjects had undergone training and are presumably the first photograph in uniform. They are of family members, so it was evidently thought  no inscriptions on the back were necessary (sometimes a family member ‘at home’ writes something).  I have one photograph with an inscription (and no family connection), the posting of which on the forum exposed my lack of ability to read the handwriting of the time but also provided to me a great deal of information about the subject. This was not a first time in uniform photograph. I have one family photograph on my maternal side which appears to mark a move from the  initial unit and imminent posting overseas. No inscription. I tend to think (on very sparse evidence!) that outside the family and people such as close friends and neighbours, there was more chance of something having been written on the card. So I do think that there may be a connection with a family friend or the like, but I have little information about what at the time was the “social network”  of the family.

I am also a little uncertain as to why anyone closely connected either to family or area would be in the Army Cyclist Corps. The situation may have changed by 1915, but when two family members and one who would become connected by marriage in the future enlisted in Nottingham on the same day in September 1914, they all went into the Sherwood Foresters.  I am not sure what choice of regiment etc there was in those days and I am afraid that looking at possibly too many relevant threads on this forum has left me as confused as ever.

[FROGSMILE]

27 minutes ago, Margaretnolan said:

What a superbly evocative photo Margaret.  They look like 6th Battalion the King’s (Liverpool) Regiment (Liverpool Rifles) Territorial Force.

Edited 17 December , 2021 by FROGSMILE

[GWF1967]

1 hour ago, FROGSMILE said:

What a superbly evocative photo Margaret.  They look like 6th Battalion the King’s (Liverpool) Regiment (Liverpool Rifles) Territorial Force.

 

The man rear centre might be traceable; he has a regimental No. on his shirt. 

[FROGSMILE]

17 minutes ago, GWF1967 said:

The man rear centre might be traceable; he has a regimental No. on his shirt. 

Well spotted.  He has marked his shirt with his regimental number in the exact place decreed in clothing regulations (the white strip),