ilkley remembers Posted 26 April , 2021 Share Posted 26 April , 2021 @FROGSMILEI know that this is going a bit off topic and I don't wish to bother Admin, although, I suspect they are busy with another post at the moment but there appears to be a number of new recruits to DLI and NF who enlisted in Aug/Sept 1914 who have been awarded the 1914 Star whilst serving with the RND. I think that there is a member of the forum who is either researching a book or who has already published a book about the RND and may have some further information. It just seems rather strange to me that men who appear to have had little military training have been sent to the front so early in the war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 26 April , 2021 Share Posted 26 April , 2021 (edited) 49 minutes ago, ilkley remembers said: @FROGSMILEI know that this is going a bit off topic and I don't wish to bother Admin, although, I suspect they are busy with another post at the moment but there appears to be a number of new recruits to DLI and NF who enlisted in Aug/Sept 1914 who have been awarded the 1914 Star whilst serving with the RND. I think that there is a member of the forum who is either researching a book or who has already published a book about the RND and may have some further information. It just seems rather strange to me that men who appear to have had little military training have been sent to the front so early in the war. Such a precipitate dispatch of Extra Reserve men does seem odd, but I'm afraid I know nothing about the administrative circumstances of that exact time, only that the RND was a scratch force hastily put together under the orders of the First Sea Lord and taking men and equipment from wherever it could get them (the naval reservists were equipped with Long Lees (CLLE) from the army's reserve arms depot at Weedon I think). It was one of those infamous cases when Winston said dont give me problems give me solutions because he was so determined to aid the Belgians to defend Antwerp (not least because of its strategic port facilities it has to be said). In fairness though the Extra Reserve battalions had always been intended as units that could fight as discrete, coherent battalions, as opposed to merely providing drafts of battle casualty replacements like the Special Reserve. To meet that intended aim I can only assume that on paper at least they had received some relevant training. Edited 26 April , 2021 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vintagebobt Posted 26 April , 2021 Share Posted 26 April , 2021 4 hours ago, ilkley remembers said: @vintagebobtI have messaged the email address to you for Robert Bueschel. He is actually a forum member but do not think that he is a regular visitor. The museum apparently has a significant collection of images and Robert is able to identify some of the locations. Looking through the photographs that you have posted many photo's in your collection are very similar to mine such as this one which was a play/opera called The Rival Chaviliers(sic). The theatre is reffered to as the Cottbus Empire and it seems that men from all nationalities took part in the performances along with an orchestra. The photographer is Paul Thurman. John Power was captured in Oct 1914 just a few weeks after he arrived in France and remained at Cottbus until 1918 when he was transferred to an internment camp in Holland and repatriated in November 1918. He had been a pre war regular in the 2nd West Yorks and was from a family who lived on the outskirts of Bradford. The chap in your collection must have been known to John and seemed to have shared an interest in the performing arts Edward Thanks Edward, it is good seeing all the pieces of the jigsaw fitting together. I collect old cards for Instagram and these came in with some others earlier this year. My Instagram page is https://www.instagram.com/vintagebobt/?hl=en in case you want to have a look. Cheers Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Atkins Posted 26 April , 2021 Share Posted 26 April , 2021 Thank you for posting these unusually 'domestic' PoW pictures, they're extremely interesting and even rather surprising. I'm struck by how un-famished some of the POWs look; this seems on the face of it to conflict with the generally poor nutrition of camp fare - particularly as the war progressed and the Allied blockade tightened. Food parcels from home, perhaps? They certainly formed an important source of calories for PoWs. Anyway, a fascinating set of pictures, thanks all. PS Very interesting about wholesale transfers of men to the RND, too: thanks again. I know of instances of individuals sent as reinforcements to various frontline units with limited training by the winter of 1914-15 - there's a thread on the Forum, somewhere - but transfers of bodies of such men at an early stage of the war is a new one, on me at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Bueschel Posted 26 April , 2021 Share Posted 26 April , 2021 On 22/04/2021 at 01:10, GreyC said: Hi Frogsmile, they might have seen this as a welcomed compensation for all the missed normal business due to the war. GreyC Hi you all (FROGSMILE) I even think so, but it's quite hard to understand the role of Paul Tharan - he was the photograph. In the address-book of Cottbus he is still recorded as an auctioneer and furniture dealer. Only a few years later he is recorded as a photograph. We don't know anything about him and his work in the two camps. I only know, that he made much more than 1.000 pictures of the camp-life. And it feels like I find a new one - every day (most of them in this forum). :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Bueschel Posted 26 April , 2021 Share Posted 26 April , 2021 On 22/04/2021 at 17:38, vintagebobt said: Orchestra and "GAFF" Party Cottbus Germany Dec 26th 1916 Hi @vintagebobt, these are all amazing photos. I don't know a lot of them and we (City Museum of Cottbus) still have over 1.200 pictures of the two POW-Camps in Cottbus. The backsides are wonderful sources for our research. Thank you for your impressions! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Bueschel Posted 26 April , 2021 Share Posted 26 April , 2021 11 hours ago, FROGSMILE said: Both collections of photos, yours and 'ilkley remembers', seem an amazingly complete record of POW images that truly reflect a sense of community (albeit an enforced one) and it will be a great thing, I feel, if the municipal museum can indeed have copies to add to their collection and perpetuate the memory of these men from over a hundred years ago. I'm sure that @Robert Bueschelwill be pleased to see them arrive. Surely. In a few days we'll open our online-exhibition, but it's just a flashlight on our collection. I hope, that we'll put our whole collection online and can open it for the big interested community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 26 April , 2021 Share Posted 26 April , 2021 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Robert Bueschel said: Surely. In a few days we'll open our online-exhibition, but it's just a flashlight on our collection. I hope, that we'll put our whole collection online and can open it for the big interested community. It will be interesting to see your online exhibition when it’s ready Robert, please can you let us know when it opens. Edited 26 April , 2021 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Bueschel Posted 26 April , 2021 Share Posted 26 April , 2021 2 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said: It will be interesting to see your online exhibition when it’s ready Robert, please can you let us know when it opens. Surely, I will do this. It will be in German language, but I hope that we can translate it in english, french and even russia and polish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 26 April , 2021 Share Posted 26 April , 2021 1 minute ago, Robert Bueschel said: Surely, I will do this. It will be in German language, but I hope that we can translate it in english, french and even russia and polish. I know that a lot of younger Germans speak excellent English (far better than most of us speak German), perhaps they will be able to translate some parts of the text. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vintagebobt Posted 27 April , 2021 Share Posted 27 April , 2021 16 hours ago, Robert Bueschel said: Hi @vintagebobt, these are all amazing photos. I don't know a lot of them and we (City Museum of Cottbus) still have over 1.200 pictures of the two POW-Camps in Cottbus. The backsides are wonderful sources for our research. Thank you for your impressions! please feel free to add them to your collection, I will try and scan some more I have, some have no details on them but they might be useful to you. Good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vintagebobt Posted 27 April , 2021 Share Posted 27 April , 2021 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vintagebobt Posted 27 April , 2021 Share Posted 27 April , 2021 Quote nothing on these two images to identify the men Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreyC Posted 28 April , 2021 Share Posted 28 April , 2021 Hi, I got this photo because of the background, as I am intersted in photo-history. Unfortunately I know much more about photography than about British uniforms. The photo seems to have been taken early in the war, as I can´t see any oversea-chevrons or wound stripes. But as I said... I´d better not speculate and leave it to you knowledgeable people. Can you identify the unit pictured? The photo was taken by and in front of the Chain Studio Gundry in Sandwich. I noticed the star on the sleeve. Can someone tell me what it stood for? Thank you for your help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan24 Posted 28 April , 2021 Share Posted 28 April , 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, GreyC said: Can you identify the unit pictured? The photo was taken by and in front of the Chain Studio Gundry in Sandwich. I noticed the star on the sleeve. Can someone tell me what It's a TF unit of The Kings Own (Royal Lancaster Regiment). Probably either 4th or 5th Battalion. I think the stars relate to 4 years efficient service completed in the Territorial Force, and I understand those years need not to be consecutive, but probably would be in most cases. Edited 28 April , 2021 by Alan24 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prussian Posted 28 April , 2021 Share Posted 28 April , 2021 Hello! Could the star be a "Range estimation badge"? (Abzeichen für Entfernungsschätzen) First row, first badge. Found in a little book called "Kurze Zusammenstellung über die britische und belgische Armee (short summary about the britsh and belgian army), 1917 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 28 April , 2021 Share Posted 28 April , 2021 On 28/04/2021 at 15:31, The Prussian said: Hello! Could the star be a "Range estimation badge"? (Abzeichen für Entfernungsschätzen) First row, first badge. Found in a little book called "Kurze Zusammenstellung über die britische und belgische Armee (short summary about the britsh and belgian army), 1917 The similarity of stars between different purposes causes much confusion GreyC and has often been discussed in the forum. In this particular case I think that Alan24 is correctly and that it shows an ‘Efficiency Star’ of the Territorial Force (part-time auxiliary) showing 4-years (originally 5) reported annually as having attended training including a two week camp. The distance judging star was a badge intended for regular army soldiers. Unfortunately they were constructed very similarly. NB. Your little book is excellent and generally most accurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prussian Posted 28 April , 2021 Share Posted 28 April , 2021 Unfortunately I couldn´t find a book about the WW1 british army uniforms like they exist for the german army. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 28 April , 2021 Share Posted 28 April , 2021 2 minutes ago, The Prussian said: Unfortunately I couldn´t find a book about the WW1 british army uniforms like they exist for the german army. Do you mean a contemporary book from the WW1 period for intelligence purposes or a current book for historians? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 28 April , 2021 Share Posted 28 April , 2021 On 28/04/2021 at 11:26, GreyC said: Hi, I got this photo because of the background, as I am intersted in photo-history. Unfortunately I know much more about photography than about British uniforms. The photo seems to have been taken early in the war, as I can´t see any oversea-chevrons or wound stripes. But as I said... I´d better not speculate and leave it to you knowledgeable people. Can you identify the unit pictured? The photo was taken by and in front of the Chain Studio Gundry in Sandwich. I noticed the star on the sleeve. Can someone tell me what it stood for? Thank you for your help! As Alan24 said the cap badge is that of the King’s Own (Royal Lancaster) Regiment. The Duchy of Lancaster is always a possession of the heir to the Crown (i.e. also Prince of Wales) and so the regiment was associated with the Royal family and wears as its badge one of the three lions of England. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prussian Posted 28 April , 2021 Share Posted 28 April , 2021 I´d take both... I only know the blue book from Schiffer, but there are only photos, and the Osprey books, but they are not detailed enough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 28 April , 2021 Share Posted 28 April , 2021 On 28/04/2021 at 16:28, The Prussian said: I´d take both... I only know the blue book from Schiffer, but there are only photos, and the Osprey books, but they are not detailed enough There are two that I can recommend. The CAMPAIGN books (in two volumes) are significantly more comprehensive but they are inevitably expensive as a result. The other book by Stephen Chambers is more set around contemporary photos, but is also very good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prussian Posted 28 April , 2021 Share Posted 28 April , 2021 (edited) Oh yes, thanks a lot. The book by Chambers is the one I meant with the blue one from Schiffer. I´ve seen the other ones, but they are expensive because of the horrible shipping costs... They are about 80-90€ incl. shipping and the are only until 1915 Edited 28 April , 2021 by The Prussian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 28 April , 2021 Share Posted 28 April , 2021 On 28/04/2021 at 16:41, The Prussian said: Oh yes, thanks a lot. The book by Chambers is the one I meant with the blue one from Schiffer. I´ve seen the other ones, but they are expensive because of the horrible shipping costs... They are about 80-90€ incl. shipping and the are only until 1915 Yes I agree that they are unfortunately very expensive. There is a Volume 2 that extends the period covered to 1915, as you say. Both are excellent studies in great detail. I am told that this French publication is very good but it’s rather sad that there’s nothing like it in the English language. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 28 April , 2021 Share Posted 28 April , 2021 (edited) 10 hours ago, vintagebobt said: The middle photo shows a man of the Gloucestershire Regiment and the lower photo one of the Duke of Cornwall’s Light Infantry. The upper photo: C. Mc Donald of Brown Square, Coatbridge, Scotland. Forum member @johnsammcmight well be interested in this man (www.coatbridgeandthegreatwar.com) Edited 28 April , 2021 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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