Muerrisch Posted 27 October , 2019 Share Posted 27 October , 2019 7 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said: I think you are right that it was probably taken at the 3rd SR lines, by then already at Litherland I believe. Before the rank and badge changes both CSgt and CSM were wearing the same badge of crown over 3-stripes as you know, so it’s difficult to determine what rank Barton was representing at his VC Investiture, but my guess is the latter. As regards the other sergeant majors, like you I doubt that they are wearing new badges as CSMs, I don’t think mixed dress (ranks) would have been permitted as it would have been a recipe for immense confusion within the Bn HQ and Sergeants’ Mess. More likely they are perhaps from the various battalions forming up, although it seems odd that there’s also an ASM with old badges present. I suspect that the differential is that he had no warrant (perhaps through being too old) whilst the others had received warrants. It’s a well known photo so I should think that there’s a key somewhere. Barter won his VC as a CSM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 28 October , 2019 Share Posted 28 October , 2019 (edited) 16 hours ago, Muerrisch said: Barter won his VC as a CSM. Yes, I thought so. I was responding to your comment that he was invested with the VC wearing Colour Sergeant badges, and I had just meant that the badges were worn by both, but thinking it through I realised that at the time the rank was Colour Sergeant with the appointment of either, CSM, or CQMS until the new rank of WOII was introduced. No wonder there has been confusion since. Interestingly, in the list of Bedfords above, there is one ‘Joe Afford’, who is quoted as CSM and then promoted to WOII a year later in 1916. Edited 28 October , 2019 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toby Brayley Posted 28 October , 2019 Share Posted 28 October , 2019 17 hours ago, Sepoy said: To support the addition of French postcards to this thread, here are a few of the better ones in my collection. Unfortunately, my knowledge of the WW1 French Army is not as good as it should be, so I look forward to seeing the comments. Sepoy They are superb, thank you for sharing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battle of loos Posted 28 October , 2019 Share Posted 28 October , 2019 Good evening very nice picture Sepoy michel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomb1302 Posted 28 October , 2019 Share Posted 28 October , 2019 @Sepoy, some of the most astounding images of my countrymen I've ever seen. Where in the world did you find them? I yearn to have pictures of that quality someday, major respect from me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 29 October , 2019 Share Posted 29 October , 2019 (edited) On 28/10/2019 at 07:41, FROGSMILE said: Yes, I thought so. I was responding to your comment that he was invested with the VC wearing Colour Sergeant badges, and I had just meant that the badges were worn by both, but thinking it through I realised that at the time the rank was Colour Sergeant with the appointment of either, CSM, or CQMS until the new rank of WOII was introduced. No wonder there has been confusion since. Interestingly, in the list of Bedfords above, there is one ‘Joe Afford’, who is quoted as CSM and then promoted to WOII a year later in 1916. Regarding proliferation of RSMs/ WOs early in the war, I can offer the following facts with regard to SR and Extra Reserve battalions ACI 2 of Sep 1914: add extra CSM and CQMS for each 100 recruits over war establishment. ACI 118 of 9 Sep: Reserve bns to be maintained at 2000 all ranks ACI 259 of 19 Sep: maintain at 2600 men. [astounding!] ACI 207 of 22 Dec: when up to 2000 all ranks, extra RSM and RQMS established NB. ACIs were numbered monthly ............. thus they were issued in a torrent once war began. Comment: I can just imagine the pushing and shoving with two each of RSM and RQMS! The proliferation might account for one of the extra WOs with crown in the Barter photo. Edited 29 October , 2019 by Muerrisch addendum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 29 October , 2019 Share Posted 29 October , 2019 27 minutes ago, Muerrisch said: Regarding proliferation of RSMs/ WOs early in the war, I can offer the following facts with regard to SR and Extra Reserve battalions ACI 2 of Sep 1914: add extra CSM and CQMS for each 100 recruits over war establishment. ACI 118 of 9 Sep: Reserve bns to be maintained at 2000 all ranks ACI 259 of 19 Sep: maintain at 2600 men. [astounding!] ACI 207 of 22 Dec: when up to 2000 all ranks, extra RSM and RQMS established NB. ACIs were numbered monthly ............. thus they were issued in a torrent once war began. Comment: I can just imagine the pushing and shoving with two each of RSM and RQMS! The proliferation might account for one of the extra WOs with crown in the Barter photo. Yes, I think that you’ve cracked it that they must be the extra, ACI decreed RSMs. Also if they were not actually substantive warrant officers, but instead appointed RSM with acting pay it would explain why they still wear ordinary 02 SD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWF1967 Posted 3 November , 2019 Share Posted 3 November , 2019 "Driver Shuttleworth. - My Servant. Wounded 8/Aug 1918". Royal Artillery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWF1967 Posted 3 November , 2019 Share Posted 3 November , 2019 Trooper. Percy Thomas Butler. 1630. Royal Horse Guards. Enlisted. 22/7/1914. Transferred. 10/5/1918. - Tpr. 5395. 3rd Guards Machine Gun Regiment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWF1967 Posted 4 November , 2019 Share Posted 4 November , 2019 (edited) A.S.C. - 4th August 1917. "Yours Sincerely Walter" Edited 4 November , 2019 by GWF1967 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daggers Posted 7 November , 2019 Share Posted 7 November , 2019 I am not sure of the date, and this is not from a postcard, but it might amuse readers. The subject is Revd. Richard Ainslie, chaplain to the 1st (Vol.) Battalion, King's Liverpool Regiment until 1908, then to 5th Battalion (TF) until 'retired' on grounds of age in 1921. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 7 November , 2019 Share Posted 7 November , 2019 I assume the "orseancart" served as a pulpit on arrival. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daggers Posted 7 November , 2019 Share Posted 7 November , 2019 I have wrestled with Altar and Halter but can’t get it together. Would the cart have a military name? It does not appear in other family pics. D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 7 November , 2019 Share Posted 7 November , 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, daggers said: I have wrestled with Altar and Halter but can’t get it together. Would the cart have a military name? It does not appear in other family pics. D It looks like a “Maltese Cart”, one was scaled for each unit officers’ mess on an infantry battalion’s equipment table. Edited 7 November , 2019 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daggers Posted 7 November , 2019 Share Posted 7 November , 2019 I have seen the term used but had no idea what it would look like. Thank you. D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 7 November , 2019 Share Posted 7 November , 2019 1 hour ago, FROGSMILE said: It looks like a “Maltese Cart”, one was scaled for each unit officers’ mess on an infantry battalion’s equipment table. It might well be ..... I have several manuals showing our horse-drawn vehicles. The Maltese would have had a "tilt", a canvas overhead cover, but by their nature these were removable so this cart is a contender. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 7 November , 2019 Share Posted 7 November , 2019 The Signallers, Cheshires, India c. 1903. Marvellous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimberley John Lindsay Posted 7 November , 2019 Share Posted 7 November , 2019 Dear All, and Muerrisch, Here is another, somewhat similar scene - but with T/Capt H. R. Corbett, IARO attd 2/69 Punjabis (probably the Sigs Pl Cdr with his Sepoys) on the NW Frontier in mid-1919. Kindest regards, Kim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 7 November , 2019 Share Posted 7 November , 2019 Smart men. I really like these groups of men with their equipment or group weapons: Vickers, Lewis, Hotchkiss, Trench Mortar, gun, wagon etc etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 7 November , 2019 Share Posted 7 November , 2019 3 hours ago, Muerrisch said: It might well be ..... I have several manuals showing our horse-drawn vehicles. The Maltese would have had a "tilt", a canvas overhead cover, but by their nature these were removable so this cart is a contender. ASC Training Part III Transport is not very clear on Maltese Carts except to say that there were many Marks, and that they were very light with slatted [ie not boarded] beds and sides. They were to be drawn by a single horse or by coolies. Provision was made for an additional horse on the near side. Lightly built. the load was only 15 cwt. The cart illustrated may well be a Maltese, because they lent themselves to many tasks and adaptations. My idea of a canvas tilt to accommodate stores and a driver was wrong ..... a simple canvas cover and lashing rope was all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWF1967 Posted 9 November , 2019 Share Posted 9 November , 2019 "Harold" 7 March 1916. Aldershot. "I enclose rotton imitation of myself which please destroy. Weather and conditions fearful down here. Have just had final leave." Posted to L/Cpl. Percy Cox. 34870 - F Coy. 18th R.W.F 2 London Welsh. No. 20 Camp. Kinmel Park. Nr. Rhyl. N.Wales. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sepoy Posted 10 November , 2019 Share Posted 10 November , 2019 On 09/11/2019 at 17:20, GWF1967 said: "Harold" 7 March 1916. Aldershot. "I enclose rotton imitation of myself which please destroy. Weather and conditions fearful down here. Have just had final leave." Posted to L/Cpl. Percy Cox. 34870 - F Coy. 18th R.W.F 2 London Welsh. No. 20 Camp. Kinmel Park. Nr. Rhyl. N.Wales. A young chap - he is wearing a Royal Fusiliers cap badge. Sepoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWF1967 Posted 11 November , 2019 Share Posted 11 November , 2019 1 hour ago, Sepoy said: A young chap - he is wearing a Royal Fusiliers cap badge. Sepoy R.F. Indeed, Trying to establish a relationship to R.W.F. - "Percy" ,I can't match him as a brother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sepoy Posted 11 November , 2019 Share Posted 11 November , 2019 12 hours ago, GWF1967 said: R.F. Indeed, Trying to establish a relationship to R.W.F. - "Percy" ,I can't match him as a brother. I assume that the connection will be London. May be they are neighbours or school friends. It is the apparent age of this lad that gets me and I wonder if he is in a School OTC or Cadet unit. Sepoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWF1967 Posted 11 November , 2019 Share Posted 11 November , 2019 5 hours ago, Sepoy said: I assume that the connection will be London. May be they are neighbours or school friends. It is the apparent age of this lad that gets me and I wonder if he is in a School OTC or Cadet unit. Sepoy I presumed "Final leave" to indicate he was shortly bound for France, or further afield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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