Postcards

[ryandunny]

My Great Great Grandfather, Bombardier Samuel Wood Bath RFA 
His death was documented in Major Ralph Hamiltons War Diary, ' The Master of Belhaven'

 

Blaupoort 2nd August, 1917

‘Another black day... My Faithful Bath has been hit at last, very badly... Poor Bath had been hit by a fragment of a high-explosive pip-squeak. It had gone in behind the right ear and at the top of his neck, cut his tongue badly and lodged in his left cheek … He was nearly choking with the blood running down his throat. We got him over to the dressing-station where fortunately we found Mortimer and another  doctor doing nothing. So they set to work on him at once. He was nearly choking with the blood running down his throat, but Mortimer said that would quickly stop. They can’t tell how bad he is yet; it all depends on if the wound becomes septic or not. He has a good chance of living but I am very afraid he is very bad. He is a dreadful loss to me, as he has since just after Loos, and he has been a devoted slave, anticipating everything I could possibly want

 

Reninghelst 11th August, 1917

 ‘Today I had the sad news that poor Bath is dead. He died in the 3rd Canadian General Hospital at Boulogne, of Broncho-pneumonia, caused by the blood he had swallowed. It is a terrible grief to me, as he did everything for me, and had been with me night and day for two years …’ 

 

Samuel died of his wounds in the 3rd Canadian General Hospital in Boulogne on Sunday 5th August 1917, He was just 37 years old, older than most but still way to young to die

[Muerrisch]

Another moving example of the now much maligned master/servant relationship of the day.

[DerMS]

This is a postcard from an uncle of my mother Georg Albrecht from the Feldrekrutendepot Rastatt in 1917.

[DerMS]

And this is a postcard from a POW Wilhelm Eck to the family of my grandmother. 

[GWF1967]

I bid on this 8x6" card on ebay; The day before the auction ended another seller listed a postcard, showing the same image of the same officer. The signature on the back had been wrongly transcribed in the listing. He is:

 Bertram Hooper Stribling. M.R.C.S.  L.R.C.S.

B. 1895. Stoke Damerel Devon.   

Medical student at Plymouth Municipal Science School. 16/01/1914

Commissioned 2Lt. 3rd Battalion The Duke of Edinburgh's Wiltshire Regiment. 22/11/1916.

M. Marjorie Cameron Davis. 1930.

D. 1974. Plymouth.

[GWF1967]

T-R.F.A. NCO's and boy bugler.   Photographer - W.H. Thwaits. 237, Marks Road, Romford, Essex. 

[FROGSMILE]

 

Boy ‘Trumpeter’ for Artillery, as with all mounted duty troops, although he could also play the bugle.

Edited 16 March , 2018 by FROGSMILE

[GWF1967]

10 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

 

Boy ‘Trumpeter’ for Artillery, as with all mounted duty troops, although he could also play the bugle.

Thank you.

[GWF1967]

2/1 London Heavy Battery R.G.A.  Weeley, Essex. February 1917.

[IPT]

I bet that's precarious behind the scenes. 

[GWF1967]

On 17 March 2018 at 00:54, IPT said:

I bet that's precarious behind the scenes. 

I thought along the same lines;   trestles on trestles?

[FROGSMILE]

32 minutes ago, GWF1967 said:

I thought along the same lines;   trestles on trestles?

 

Probably a combination of trestles and or planks laid athwart GS Wagons I should think.

Edited 18 March , 2018 by FROGSMILE

[GWF1967]

Photographer. J.W. Hack. Suffolk Rd, Cheltenham.

 

" The Lads of the Nook.  B.Row. Flynn, Longley, Foot, Phillips.  F.Row. Phippen, Carey, Poolman"   

 

T - R.F.A. - Gloster  Shoulder Titles on Foot, Phillips and Poolman, who also has a wrist dog tag.   Carey is seated on an A.S.C. 'O'ats? sack. 

 

Tptr. Edward Flynn. - 1135 / 805551.    T.F. R.F.A   (231st / 2nd N/Midland Bde.)

Gnr. Cecil William Longley. M.M. - 1613.  Comm. 2Lt. T.F. R.F.A   (B/240 / 1st S/Midland Bde.)

Bdr. Edwin Coulston Lee Foot. - 1646 / 825476. T.F. R.F.A.  

Gnr. William Phillips. - 1644 / 805576. T.F. R.F.A   ( 2nd N/Midland Amm. Column )

Gnr. Ernest Phippen. - 1661 / 825485. T.F. R.F.A.

Gnr. Sidney H. Carey. - 825395. T.F.  R.F.A. -  Pte. 354223.  Lab. Corps.

Gnr. Bertie Poolman. - 1658 / 825482. T.F. R.F.A.   (1st S/Midland Bde.)

 

[IPT]

Ernie Phippen not yet prepared to allow military life to interfere with his hairstyle.

[GWF1967]

16 hours ago, IPT said:

Ernie Phippen not yet prepared to allow military life to interfere with his hairstyle.

. Saturday soldier; Friday night hairdo!  

[MBrockway]

On 21/02/2018 at 13:04, Drew-1918 said:

 

KRRC & WAAC

 

On 21/02/2018 at 13:09, Drew-1918 said:

 

 

 

Profuse apologies Drew, but I've only just spotted this excellent postcard - wow!

 

I am 95% certain this is the Serjeants' Mess of 1/KRRC.

 

That's largely based on the RSM being RSM Henry TEDDER, MC ...

 

RSM Tedder, MC  in May 1920                                                                      RSM in Drew's picture

 

 

Aside from the obvious resemblance, the two wound stripes and the (probable) MC ribbon are strong corroboration.

 

Tedder enlisted in approx Mar/Apr 1897 into 1/KRRC.  He served in South Africa and was awarded the QSA (as Corporal) and KSA (as Lance Serjeant).  He was a full Serjeant by 1904.

 

He was MiD in 1915 (LG 29200 22 Jun 1915) and won his MC in 1916 (LG 29684 27 Jul 1916).  The citation states "For conspicuous coolness and devotion to duty on many occasions under heavy fire"

 

I'm unsure when he retired, but it looks to be 1921.

 

I'm also pretty sure the Bandmaster is Bandmaster Thomas Conway BROWN, who was BM of 1/KRRC from 1903 until his retirement in 1922.  Despite such long service, he was somewhat overshadowed by the famous Paddy Dunn, BM of 2nd battalion, and the only pictures I have of BM Thomas are distant shots of the whole Band and Bugles - not good enough to confidently confirm the man in Drew's picture.

 

As regards location and date, there are a good few times where the battalion was in hutments 1918-1920 including time in Rhineland billets in the BAOR.

 

I did note a comment re their time in Rugeley Camp, Staffs. July to October 1919, though.  While there the officers hired 600 acres of "unpromising looking shooting" on Lord Anglesey's estate on Cannock Chase for some welcome recreation.  The Chronicle goes on to say "most of this area was moorland, never free from perambulating soldiers and members of the W.A.A.C." 

 

Mark

 

 

Edited 22 March , 2018 by MBrockway

[FROGSMILE]

It is a great photo isn’t it Mark.  Looking again I was trying to work out the rank of the jolly looking staff serjeant grade SNCO stood between the RSM and the BM, as I thought the RQMS to be still wearing the old style rank badge and at rear right (who I see now does not have a cord boss badge), but I wonder now if it’s actually the jovial chap first mentioned.  Notice the ball buttons worn by only these most senior men.

Edited 24 March , 2018 by FROGSMILE

[Drew-1918]

On 23/03/2018 at 03:26, MBrockway said:

Profuse apologies Drew, but I've only just spotted this excellent postcard - wow!

 

I am 95% certain this is the Serjeants' Mess of 1/KRRC.

 

That's largely based on the RSM being RSM Henry TEDDER, MC ...

 

RSM Tedder, MC  in May 1920                                                                      RSM in Drew's picture

 

 

Aside from the obvious resemblance, the two wound stripes and the (probable) MC ribbon are strong corroboration.

 

Tedder enlisted in approx Mar/Apr 1897 into 1/KRRC.  He served in South Africa and was awarded the QSA (as Corporal) and KSA (as Lance Serjeant).  He was a full Serjeant by 1904.

 

He was MiD in 1915 (LG 29200 22 Jun 1915) and won his MC in 1916 (LG 29684 27 Jul 1916).  The citation states "For conspicuous coolness and devotion to duty on many occasions under heavy fire"

 

I'm unsure when he retired, but it looks to be 1921.

 

I'm also pretty sure the Bandmaster is Bandmaster Thomas Conway BROWN, who was BM of 1/KRRC from 1903 until his retirement in 1922.  Despite such long service, he was somewhat overshadowed by the famous Paddy Dunn, BM of 2nd battalion, and the only pictures I have of BM Thomas are distant shots of the whole Band and Bugles - not good enough to confidently confirm the man in Drew's picture.

 

As regards location and date, there are a good few times where the battalion was in hutments 1918-1920 including time in Rhineland billets in the BAOR.

 

I did note a comment re their time in Rugeley Camp, Staffs. July to October 1919, though.  While there the officers hired 600 acres of "unpromising looking shooting" on Lord Anglesey's estate on Cannock Chase for some welcome recreation.  The Chronicle goes on to say "most of this area was moorland, never free from perambulating soldiers and members of the W.A.A.C." 

 

Mark

 

 

 

Fantastic! What wonderfully interesting and detailed information. Thank you so much for this. I did not imagine I would ever learn so much about it. 

 

I may have a few more as I have now acquired the set. They actually came from the collection of a QVR man captured on 1st July 1916. He does not feature in the KRRC shots though so it must be a friend or relative.

I will try and get round to posting, but am just in the middle of moving house so please bear with me. 

 

Thanks again,

Chris

[MBrockway]

5 hours ago, Drew-1918 said:

 

Fantastic! What wonderfully interesting and detailed information. Thank you so much for this. I did not imagine I would ever learn so much about it. 

 

I may have a few more as I have now acquired the set. They actually came from the collection of a QVR man captured on 1st July 1916. He does not feature in the KRRC shots though so it must be a friend or relative.

I will try and get round to posting, but am just in the middle of moving house so please bear with me. 

 

Thanks again,

Chris

 

I'm similarly busy, so no rush, but definitely looking forward to seeing them!

 

With the presence of the WAAC/QMAAC ladies, we must be later than the beginnings of WAAC recruitment in March 1917 and since at least some of the ladies have the QMAAC shoulder title, we must also be later than the name change in April 1918.

 

Is it possible your man spent time in the KRRC after he was repatriated from being a POW?  As you know, plenty of QVR men had spells attached to the 60th.

 

Could he be the civilian?

 

Do you know his name?

 

Mark

[Drew-1918]

You are right! He did transfer into the KRRC. However, I couldn't find him when I looked in the group photos. I will defer to keener eyes once I can get the images online.

 

He was Sidney P. Springate, 2421, 390430, 1st QVR, 69946 KRRC. I found his medal card and ICRC records, but have not had chance to search for other evidence yet. 

 

Many thanks again your posts were most illuminating. 

 

Chris

[MBrockway]

On 22/03/2018 at 19:03, FROGSMILE said:

It is a great photo isn’t it Mark.  Looking again I was trying to work out the rank of the jolly looking staff serjeant grade SNCO stood between the RSM and the BM, as I thought the RQMS to be still wearing the old style rank badge and at rear right (who I see now does not have a cord boss badge), but I wonder now if it’s actually the jovial chap first mentioned.  Notice the ball buttons worn by only these most senior men.

 

I thought I'd cracked the jovial man as being a prominent CSM, but that man should have had DCM and MM ribbons up, and our 'cheery chap' only seems to have a campaign trio.  I have come across cases where men chose not to put up their gallantry ribbons, but these are rare, so I've ruled out that CSM, at least for now.  I do agree that his badge looks closer to a crown in a wreath (RQMS), than a plain crown (CSM).  Perhaps Chris, you could do a zoom-in of his sleeve (and ribbons) when he has a bit of time?  

 

I also agree that the chap at the RH end of the rear-most rank is a real conundrum! 

• Blackened buttons, so probably Rifles,
• Plain cap badge, not corded boss, so (in 1918/1919) CQMS or lower - i.e. not WO II
• no inverted chevrons visible on upper sleeve, so CSM or higher - i.e. WO II or WO I! - or plain Rifleman
• two chevrons visible on lower sleeve with an additional badge above
• that additional badge on the lower left arm is too clear to be a blemish on the photograph
• Good Conduct stripes would not be seen on a member of the Serjeants' Mess

The first possibility for the lower left arm badges is the old 4 chevrons and star RQMS badge.  This dates back to when RSM (then just plain SM) and BM were the only Warrant Officers (i.e. before Feb 1915 when Army Order AO174 introduced the new WO II's).  Not wearing the corded boss cap badge would be consistent with that.  However all the the dating evidence (QWAAC ST's, campaign trios, etc.) points to after the Armistice.  The 60th has form on ignoring War Office diktats though, so I'm going to do a trawl through my KRRC photos to see if I can spot an RQMS post Feb 1915 still using these distinctions.

 

The other option that springs to mind is the Bugle Major badge - four chevrons with a pair of intertwined bugles above.  IIRC the Bugle Major appointment, while often a WO, could technically be held by any rank from Serjeant up.  Again, IIRC, the Bugle Major badge only has the additional crown etc. if the wearer is of WO or Colour/Staff Serjeant rank.  In full dress, the Bugle Major badge is only worn on the right lower sleeve.  I have no information whether it was worn on both sleeves in SD.  By their very nature, Bugle Majors in formal photographs tend to be dressed to the nines looking splendid in their full rig with rifle busby etc., so I have never spotted a Bugle Major badge on khaki!  I'll include this in my RQMS archive trawl too!

 

A plain Rifleman, possibly acting as some sort of Mess Orderly, is the last option - note he is immediately adjacent to the chap in shirt sleeves, ?who is probably a cook/steward rather than a member of the Mess.  That would imply the chevrons are GC badges, but the star looks too big for the Distance Judging Star, and it's on the wrong arm!  No other trade or proficiency badge springs to mind.  The 1913 Priced Vocabulary extract in David's booklet mentions a four-pointed Star as a Special Reserve re-enlistment badge, sounds similar to the old VF proficiency star, but no detail on where this was worn and, anyway, our chap's star is clearly not this.

 

I think the jury's out on this one.  It'll be one of the first two possibilities methinks, and I'm doubtful whether I have photos that will 100% resolve this .  The other photos in Chris's collection might help further though.

 

Aside from the RSM and BM, we have three other corded boss badges visible.  By my reckoning, the battalion would have had seven WO I's and WO II's - RSM, BM, RQMS and CSM (x4), plus the Bugle Major if a WO - so at least two of the bare-headed riflemen are likely to be CSM's.  The chap second in from the RH margin certainly has the air and turn-out of a WO! 

 

Mark

[Drew-1918]

Added via iphone so I am not sure of quality or about how these appear on a desktop computer. Will correct if

need be when I get internet. 

Let me know if I have missed any close-ups you wanted.

 

 

 

 

[MBrockway]

On 22/02/2018 at 16:39, CountryJohn said:

Yes, indeed, Frogsmile, and I wonder how the gentleman in civilian dress (canteen manager or equivalent, perhaps?) with a proprietal arm around her, and another young lady on his knee, fits into that narrative?

 

I notice the forewoman / mess sergeant has creased her hat US Army-style - I don't know much about QMAAC dress regulations and customs: was that a common practice?

 

C_J

 

 

 

On 22/02/2018 at 16:45, FROGSMILE said:

 

The hat creasing was not that unusual, as I have seen it in other photos, but seemingly not official.  It would have been seen as a Boy Scout and NZ style rather than US I suspect, as NZ soldiers were seen around Britain with their very similarly styled hats and they had been introduced to Boy Scouts by Baden Powell, who had seen them in South Africa.

  It’s interesting what you say about canteen manager, etc. over the course of the war battalion establishments were reduced and Mess Sergeant posts often replaced on home establishments (reserve battalions etc) with civilians.

 

If my identification of the photo as being 1/KRRC at Rugeley Camp Jul-Oct 1919 is correct, then I note that the 5th (Reserve) Battalion, New Zealand Rifle Brigade had made a big positive impact on the local community during their residence there from Sep 1917 to June 1919.

 

One would imagine the WAAC's might have been equally well won over.

 

Mark

 

 

 

 

[MBrockway]

On 24/03/2018 at 13:46, Drew-1918 said:

Added via iphone so I am not sure of quality or about how these appear on a desktop computer. Will correct if

need be when I get internet. 

Let me know if I have missed any close-ups you wanted.

 

 

 

 

 

Bingo!  That's definitely the double bugle badge!

 

GM                                                                          Worsted (drawing of)

[©JON188, British Badge Forum]                                                        [Rank At A Glance (Revised Ed., c.1915-16]

 

In this position, that would mean Bugle Major, and there'll be four chevrons below it, of which we can see the top two.

 

Mark

 

[Edit (30 Jun 2018): this post further on adds a photo of a Rifle Brigade Bugle Major from 1915 showing the four inverted chevrons being worn on both cuffs in khaki SD]

 

 

 

Edited 30 June , 2018 by MBrockway

[Drew-1918]

Great spot! Many thanks indeed.

Chris