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st clement

How Can I Find Out If WW1 Medals Were Issued?

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st clement

Hi

I have been carrying out extensive research into one of my ancestors during the war, his name is Andrew Ayres, his Reg No 101455 and he was a gunner serving with the 279th Seige Battery RGA. He was severely injured in Nov 1917 and brought back to England, after being treated in several hospitals and finally ending up in a lunatic asylum he died on the 19th June 1919.

I have his MIC and on it it says that he was entitled to the Victory medal and the British medal but underneath that there seems to be a signature and this, RGA/1454, can someone please tell me what this means.

Also, how do i find out if these medals were issued, there just isn't any sign that they were, his next of kin was my grandmother and she always said up until the day she died she never saw Andrews medals, she had his silk postcards that he sent her and i have the stanhope pen that he brought back from Arras, but , nobody in the family ever saw his medals, if my nan did have his medals they would have been displayed on her mantle along with his postcards.

Kind Regards

Diggles

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dundeesown

Hi Diggles

That is his Silver War Badge list number.Have a wee look on the Long Long Trail,that will help you out with his medal card.

Gary.F.

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mags43

Hi Diggles your relation enlisted on the 30/6/1916 age 28 on his records it states he had prior service in the London Scottish but no dates? in his pension forms there are comments on his mental condition which i feel that this is a person thing but he is recommend by the officer to be treated at an asylum.? I would just like to add that unfortunatley now the medal office will not replace your relatives medals they stopped WWI medals a few years ago so your only option is to purchse a copy set and have them named,and a copy wound badge. there are 16 pages on Andrew records held on Ancestry I hope this helps many thanks Mags

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HarryBettsMCDCM

The fact that his MiC does not suggest that the Medals were returned,would indicate they were issued,if he was hospitalised @ the time of issue they may well have been forwarded to that institution,hence your relative never having seen them,they may well be extant out there somewhere....

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st clement

Thanks everyone for taking the time to reply to my post, i agree with HarryBetts, i think there is a strong possibility that his medals are out there somewhere, you never know, they may surface one day,.........we can only hope.

Regards

Diggles

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headgardener

If your man died in June 1919 then it is highly unlikely that he ever saw them. Check when his medals were issued (the medal rolls will indicate it) but it was almost certainly after the date of his death. If there is no indication on the MIC that they were returned then, as Harry says, it is safe to assume that they were issued to his next-of-kin. There's also a strong chance that a 'death plaque' (a 'Dead-man's -penny') would also have been issued.

If they are indeed 'still out there' then they almost certainly passed through the hands of the family. You say that if your nan had them then she would have displayed them, that would possibly depend on her feelings about the army's roll in his demise. There are plenty of stories about medals being thrown away by men or their next-of-kin as a gesture of contempt for the price they were asked to pay relative to the reward they received; 2 or 3 bits of semi-precious metal was small recompense for what so many of them were forced to endure.

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st clement

I can see where you're coming from, his silk postcards were a personal thing between Andrew and my Nan, but as you so rightly said, for what those boys went through out there, a few small pieces of metal don't really do it, do they? you could be onto something though, it's possible she may have discarded them, but, i'm not totally convinced,.......yet.

This leads me onto another point which i'd completely forgotten about,....a while ago now i was having some old family photots restored, one of them was of my nan and my eldest auntie who would have been only about 8yrs when the photo was taken, they both appear to be wearing ( according to the restorer ) some type of badge for the RAMC, the photo was taken around the time of Gunner Ayres death in 1919, so i presume it was something to do with that.

Regards

Diggles

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headgardener
....they both appear to be wearing ( according to the restorer ) some type of badge for the RAMC, the photo was taken around the time of Gunner Ayres death in 1919, so i presume it was something to do with that.

Hmmm. 'According to the restorer'.... Was he an esteemed member of this forum? If not, then there's scope for interpretation on this, I reckon. Any chance of posting the image here? See what we make of it?

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st clement

I've just dug the original out and scanned it, as the restored version is at a different location, if you look carefully you can see an emblem or badge attached to my nans beads around her neck, the child is also wearing one that you can see just inside her beads,....also..... my nan seems to be wearing what looks like a small flag of some description, it's on her blouse, have a look and see what you think.

Cheers

Diggles

post-58693-003270900 1285151540.jpg

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headgardener

I can see the things that you're referring to. It certainly looks like a flag, probably an emblem for a 'flag day' collection (a contemporary emblem relating to a charitable collection of some kind, a bit like the looped ribbons or stickers that we might be given when we make a donation to a charity nowadays). I can't make it out though, perhaps someone here will recognize the particular charity or fund.

I see the 'emblem' you're referring to, and i can see how it does look a bit like an RAMC badge, but I have to say that I'm not convinced. I've never seen one being worn in this way (which doesn't mean to say that it couldn't happen, of course....), they were usually worn in the form of 'sweetheart' brooches, or pins. I've sometimes seen a regimental 'pin' being worn at someone's collar, but never as a pendant on a string of pearls. It's too indistinct to be truly diagnostic, but if it IS an RAMC symbol then it would usually denote that the person's nearest and dearest was serving with the RAMC, but this doesn't fit with your family history. Did she have a very close relative in the RAMC? If she was wearing a badge in 'honour' of your man we'd expect her to be wearing an RGA brooch, or similar. On balnce, I'd say it isn't an RAMC badge.

I see what you mean about her daughter. The large symbom above her necklace is a cloth button which matches the material of her dress. there appears to be something just above and to the left (her right) of the button, but it's too indistinct to say much about it. Could just be artefact.

Edit; regarding the necklace pendant, it could be the profile of face (like the queen's head on a coin) which was a popular symbol on many types of necklace pendants or brooches, rather than being a snake wrapped around a stick (RAMC)

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st clement

I did compare the one around my nans neck to a picture of a cap badge that belongs to the RAMC and i must admit that there is a similarity,.but... as you say it's probably not quite clear enough, i must admit also that i did have rather a heated discussion with the restorer as he said that her husband or someone very close to her MUST have served or was STILL serving in the RAMC, but there is no one, i've never found any evidence to suggest that any member of my family served with the RAMC, .........it's a strange one.

Regards

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headgardener

The more I look at it, the more I think it's too rounded to be an RAMC badge, also your restorer was thinking that there's a scroll underneath it; while i can see something on the lower left (her right) of the badge, there isn't a corresponding part of scroll on the right side, so maybe it's just a shadow (or the other side is hidden by the lace of her blouse...).

I'm now pretty sure it's a cameo pendant (showing the profile of an elegant lady looking towards the left) rather than an RAMC badge.

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st clement

I think i will whole heartedly agree with you on this one, as she would have no reason to be wearing the insignia of the RAMC in the first place.

Diggles.

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mags43

Hi Diggles dont think I am being negative but with this length of time, you may never find his medals many medals found there way into hock shop especially in the 20s right upto 70s and in the 80s many medals were melted down for there scrap silver value? I have been very lucky in the past i managed to replace my grandads and great uncles medals by contacting MOD Drowitch who at the time delt with the medal Enquiries, and replaced them even my great great uncles whos medals had been returned to the medal office in the 1920s both had been placed into Asylums. My Mum & Dad wasn,t to pleased when they had to go and stand infront of the Justice of the peace?. I recently came acrossed another relative who served in WWI after asking what relatives that are left of the were about of his medals, and writting to all the revelant places, I decided to replace them with good quality copy they will never be the same(original), but it is a good way of representing what our relation earned. or you can find some originals that have had the name erased thats another option. you can also replace his death penny, good luck I hope you find them, It would be a fitting end to what servicemen suffered after WWI Mags

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stephen peter roche

I have read with intrest some of the comments about finding w w 1 medals and m,i,c not having the m,i,cards how do i obtain the m,i,c for William and Jeremiah Toomey of the 1'st city of London Regiment,I know they each had a s,w,b and belive they where due others how do I even find out if they where issued or not 8020 William was kia 1916 and 8021 jeremiah med/discharged 1919.is there a web site to find out if they where issued anyone.stephen

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CGM

Hello Stephen,

THIS is a link to William's MIC on Ancestry. He had two numbers: 8020 and 203736 and was awarded the Victory and British War medals.

They would have been sent automatically so, as there is no mention of them being returned for any reason, it is to be assumed that they were received by the family.

CGM

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CGM

THIS is the link to Jeremiah's MIC. Again on Ancestry.

He also has two numbers 8021 and 203737 although we can see from the card that his medals were issued engraved with the number 8021.

Someone with more experience of this style of card (different from that of William) should be able to explain it for you.

Or you could look at The Long, Long Trail for help (see the link at the top L of this page).

CGM

Edited to add that if you don't have access to Ancestry your local library should be able to help.

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stephen peter roche

Hello Stephen,

THIS is a link to William's MIC on Ancestry. He had two numbers: 8020 and 203736 and was awarded the Victory and British War medals.

They would have been sent automatically so, as there is no mention of them being returned for any reason, it is to be assumed that they were received by the family.

CGM

I thank for takeing the time to do that he came from the Poplar area but at last I know they where issued along with the swb's,I will try to contact possable relatives in that area as there are still Toomeys liveing around the Church my gt/grandmother twomey Married in 1894 if they where not sold or worse that name is not a spelling mistake.stephen

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