ypres Posted 10 June , 2004 Share Posted 10 June , 2004 Hi, all, I was unsure where to post this or if it is helpful to anyone. I have the Police Gazeete for Tuesday 25th May 1915 listing all the Deserters and Absentees from his Majesty's service. In it, it lists:- 1047 men from aug 14 to then present date. 11 discharged for misconduct. 83 absent from the Territorial Force. 56 from the Admiralty. 3 from the Royal Marines. It then lists on the back page:- Men reported as deserters or absentees (War Office and Admiralty) who have REJOINED or who for any other reason are NOT to be Apprehended. 140 men. Of these i have found that certainly 11 went on to serve their country and died later in one of the actions to come. Most of the 140 had only been AWOL for either one or two weeks, The paper lists Name, Reg No, Corps, Age, Height, Complexion, Hair, Eyes, Trade, Enlistment (date and place), Parish and County in which born, Desertion (date and place), Marks and Remarks. If this is of use to anyone researching then I will look for you. Not sure if it is use but some were En-route (Caterham, Tralee, Exeter, Seaforth). All the best. Mandy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Matthews Posted 10 June , 2004 Share Posted 10 June , 2004 Hi Mandy I'd be interested in any Grenadier's mentioned. Re. your memorial plaque to L/Cpl. J E KITCHEN; I'm afraid that I have no further information to add to what you already know I'd be interested to see whether his medals come to light at some point! Best wishes Ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annette Burgoyne Posted 10 June , 2004 Share Posted 10 June , 2004 Hi Mandy Any king's Shropshire Light Infantry, I have found a few who have forfeited for Desertion in their 1914 Star Medal Roll entries and would be interested in any extra info. on these men. Thanks Annette Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pete Wood Posted 10 June , 2004 Share Posted 10 June , 2004 Mandy, please: Over how many pages did it take to list 1000+ men...?? Any photos...?? Thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_59 Posted 10 June , 2004 Share Posted 10 June , 2004 I thought you might be interested in the Grenadiers Ed. I would have thought the Grenadiers would have been very loyal (the volunteers), being in one of the elite infantry unite, the guards? dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john w. Posted 10 June , 2004 Share Posted 10 June , 2004 Mandy Am interested in anything to do with deserters... John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Maier Posted 10 June , 2004 Share Posted 10 June , 2004 The implication is I suppose that the Police Gazette regularly carried deserter and absentee information throughout the war. The Newspaper Library at Colindale has the Police Gazette on its catalogue. Apparently it was initially subtitled Hue and Cry. The files are closed for 75 years, but that is not a problem for Great War issues. There is the potential there for creating a deserter database. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ypres Posted 10 June , 2004 Author Share Posted 10 June , 2004 Ed, Your list of Grenadier Guards are as follows, Walter Batchelor, 22112, 4th GG, age 31 3/4, 6ft 3/4ins, coal heaver, enl- 14/01/15 in Portsmouth. Deserted 10th May from Caterham. Thomas Bradley, 23251, 4th GG, age 22 1/2, 6ft 3/4ins, Policeman, enl- 02/03/15, Nottingham. Deserted 2nd May from Caterham. He had 2 scars on his right leg. Thomas Clark, 22595, 4th GG, age 37 1/4, 5ft 11 1/4ins, enl- 15/02/15 Mansfield, Deserted 9th May London. John R Hillson, 22740, 4th GG, age 20 1/4, 5ft 10 3/4ins, cook, enl- 4/02/15, Liverpool. Deserted 2nd May, Caterham. scar on knees. Robert Ivall, 21834, 4th Res GG, age 22, 5ft 9ins, labourer, enl 11/01/15, Deserted 10th May, Caterham. Elijah Lovatt, 2088? (0 or 9), 4th GG, age 30 1/2, 5ft 11 1/4ins, enl- 01/12/14, Manchester, Born Pendleton, Manchester, Deserted 9th May London. F Snape, 10865, 4th GG, age 35 1/2, 5ft 10 3/4ins, complexion- fresh, hair- brown, eyes- grey, sawyer, enl- 17/06/03, Stockport, Born Bollington, Cheshire, Deserted 11th May 15, London. William Taylor, 23054, 4th GG, age 34 1/2, 5ft 8 1/2ins, colry fireman, enl- 17/02/15, Bolton, Derserted 2nd May, Caterham. F. J. Underwood, 23487, 4th GG, age 18 1/2, 5ft 10 1/2ins, complexion- fresh, hair- brown, eyes- blue, seaman, enl- 22/03/15, Poplar, born Silverton, Essex, Deserted 2nd May Caterham, scar both hips chin 2 pigmented moles on face. Men rejoined or not to be apprehended. H. Brandon, 16842, 4th GG, gazetted 18th May 1915. C. Clayton, 18207, 4th GG, gazetted 11th May 1915. S. Grocock, 11882, 4th GG, gazetted 18th May 1915. H. Harney, 21419, 4th GG, gazetted 18th May 1915. Hayden HARNEY. Private. 21419. 4th Bn. Grenadier Guards. Monday 25th September 1916. Born in Gorton and enlisted in Manchester. THIEPVAL MEMORIAL. 8D. G. Richardson, 10353, 4th GG, gazetted 18th May 1915. Hope this is of use for you. Mandy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pete Wood Posted 11 June , 2004 Share Posted 11 June , 2004 The implication is I suppose that the Police Gazette regularly carried deserter and absentee information throughout the war. The Newspaper Library at Colindale has the Police Gazette on its catalogue. Apparently it was initially subtitled Hue and Cry. The files are closed for 75 years, but that is not a problem for Great War issues. There is the potential there for creating a deserter database. My thoughts exactly, Clive. That is why I wanted to know how many pages there were, because I don't think that Colindale allows digital cameras..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeppoSapone Posted 11 June , 2004 Share Posted 11 June , 2004 William Taylor, 23054, 4th GG, age 34 1/2, 5ft 8 1/2ins, colry fireman, enl- 17/02/15, Bolton, Derserted 2nd May, Caterham. Is this man tall enough to have been in the Guards? I thought that the minimum height for O.R.s was 5 foot 10 inches ? No height restrictions for officers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ypres Posted 11 June , 2004 Author Share Posted 11 June , 2004 Annette, No King's Shropshire Light Infantry. Racing Teapots, The paper is 12 pages with no photo's. Do you want a copy of this? John, Do you want a copy of this? I will have to do one for myself as it is beginning to come apart! All the best, Mandy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pete Wood Posted 11 June , 2004 Share Posted 11 June , 2004 Pretty please with sugar on, Yes I would dearly like a copy. You can email me via my website (I'm on broadband) or I'll send you my address. Thanks Mandy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ypres Posted 11 June , 2004 Author Share Posted 11 June , 2004 Pete, send me your address via e-mail and as soon as i can get it done i will mail it to you. It may be a few weeks tho, helping friend to move next week and getting ready for the Somme 1st July-8th July. Mandy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Matthews Posted 11 June , 2004 Share Posted 11 June , 2004 Hi Mandy That's great - thank you for your efforts on my behalf . I certainly recognise a couple of the names in your list, including Pte. Bradley, a Nottingham Policeman (tut tut!). When I got home this evening, I look forward to adding this information to my records. Many thanks once again Mandy Kind rgds Ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ypres Posted 11 June , 2004 Author Share Posted 11 June , 2004 Ed, Tut tut indeed that was my response, there are a few entries who are from grenadiers depot, are they of use? Are you doing their history and will you be publishing it? if so let me know when I like signed copies of books especially from Pals that I know. Good luck and best wishes, Mandy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ypres Posted 11 June , 2004 Author Share Posted 11 June , 2004 Annette, Many apologies i have just found one, there may be more C. Bryant. 16822, 8th Bn., age 34 1/4. 5ft 8 1/2ins, complexion- fair, hair- brown, no enlistment date but deserted here in Seaford 13th May I am listing all the Regiments at the moment so may come across a few more. Mandy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeldr Posted 11 June , 2004 Share Posted 11 June , 2004 Men reported as deserters or absentees (War Office and Admiralty) who have REJOINED or who for any other reason are NOT to be Apprehended. 140 men. Of these i have found that certainly 11 went on to serve their country and died later in one of the actions to come. Most of the 140 had only been AWOL for either one or two weeks, This is a very interesting subject For some time I have been puzzled by an early entry on the medal roll as described by Fevyer & Wilson – “The 1914 Star to the RN and RM” It reads thus Anson Battalion Beaton, W., Sto2 No. K15079 Date of Death 25 Sept 1915 (Army) Run Star forfeited see correspondence Returned to Mint March 1934 ‘Run’ is the Admiralty expression for deserted The Army in brackets after the date of death suggests to me that he died in while serving his King and country, but in the Army and not the navy It has always seemed to me (if my above interpretation is correct) that the refusal of the 1914 Star to this man who died for his King and country, was a rather petty act and an insult to his family. Desertion must be discouraged, but for the punishment to follow beyond the grave seems rather extreme. Regards Michael D.R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annette Burgoyne Posted 11 June , 2004 Share Posted 11 June , 2004 Hi Mandy Thanks a lot for looking. I see that Pte. Bryant had deserted before the 8th Battalion had even set sail for the battlefields. Thanks again Annette Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john w. Posted 11 June , 2004 Share Posted 11 June , 2004 Late as usual.. Yes please ... whats the best way.. Im not on broadband as I live in a village... and BT wont connect us John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Matthews Posted 11 June , 2004 Share Posted 11 June , 2004 Hi Mandy I've just run some of the Grenadier's from your earlier listing through my database and can add the following: Private 10865 Fred SNAPE Born 1880 Macclesfield, Cheshire. Previous service with the 5th Cheshire Regt. (Militia). Joined 2nd Bn. in France on 20 September 1914. Evacuated to UK on 31 March 1915 with "nerve shock". According to the gazette entry, he deserted not soon after! Discharged to pension on 30 June 1916. His 1914 Trio and Clasp have been sold recently. Private 23054 William TAYLOR Enlisted on 17 February 1915 and discharged on 14 December 1918 with wounds. L/Cpl 16842 N BRANDON (rather than 'H'?) Joined 1st Bn. in France on 12 November 1914. Medals forfeited for desertion on 20 August 1915. Private 11882 S GROCOCK To France with 1st Bn. on 6 October 1914. Private 10353 G RICHARDSON Enlisted on 24 June 1902 and discharged on 6 March 1918 with "derangement of knee joint", age 34 yrs. 6 months. I do have some information on Pte Bradley and his service with the Nottingham City Police but not to hand. A fellow Pal is actually writing a history of the 1st Bn. in 1914. My main interest lies in the 2nd Bn. which is already reasonably well covered by both Ponsonby's and Craster's "Fifteen Rounds a Minute". I've been compiling a computer database of Grenadier's who served before and during the Great War for the past few years and presently have just under 10,000 records. I have thought about writing something on the 2nd Bn. in 1914 but with more emphasis on the men who made up the battalion that went to France on 13 August 1914, my great-great Uncle included! Anyway, I hope the above proves of some interest. I would certainly be interested in those listed under "depot" as well, if it's not too much trouble! Many thanks Best wishes Ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Carter Posted 12 June , 2004 Share Posted 12 June , 2004 is it possible to let me know of any Royal Warwickshire soldiers please. Thanks Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Matthews Posted 12 June , 2004 Share Posted 12 June , 2004 "Is this man tall enough to have been in the Guards? I thought that the minimum height for O.R.s was 5 foot 10 inches ?" I understood the minimum height requirement to be 5'8". Ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ypres Posted 14 June , 2004 Author Share Posted 14 June , 2004 Annette and Terry Will look later in the week, John, e-mail your address i'll send asap Ed, Thanks for sharing I will be helping a friend with the rest of her packing this week (finally moving thursday!) so won't be online as much. will be incontact asap thereafter. Mandy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve fuller Posted 14 June , 2004 Share Posted 14 June , 2004 Hi Any mention of Bedfords (5th or 7th specifically) Regimental desertions please? Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Lewis Posted 14 June , 2004 Share Posted 14 June , 2004 Mandy Any mention of South Staffords. Regards Doug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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