Jump to content
Free downloads from TNA ×
The Great War (1914-1918) Forum

Remembered Today:

Tank Info - F41 'Fray Bentos'


ericthornton

Recommended Posts

I'm reading 'Band of Brigands' at the moment and was struck by a sentence( pg292) that said that during the Passchendale offensive (around the 10th-13th August) the above tank got ahead of the infantry, was bogged down and then held out on its own for three days as a kind of pill box.

Does anyone have any further information regarding this event. Tank type, detail of the action - were they alone or did they have any infantry support etc. It sounds quite a remarkable feat to hold out for three days. Were any gallantry awards given?

thanks, ET

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Try The Boiler Plate War by John Foley which contains extracts from an interview with one of the crew.

Incidentally whilst ditched the tank was not too badly damaged - the Germans recovered it, repaired it and shipped it off to Berlin where it was demo'd in front of the Kaiser. Often wondered if it became one of the Friekorps tanks.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The tank that went to Berlin was not the F41 that held out for three days. There were two F41s. The one that performed the feat mentioned in post #1 was 2329, a Mark IV Male. Accounts show that this tank suffered two penetrations behind the right hand outer track adjuster. The tank that went to Berlin was its replacement 8019, F41 "Fray Bentos II", another Mark IV Male but this one captured at Cambrai. The only discernable damage to this tank is a hole in the shield for the left hand 6 pounder. Nor did 8019 become a FreiKorps tank - it was dismantled for mechanical examination.

For another account of the action of August 1917 see Mitchell's "Tank Warfare".

Gwyn

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Centurian, Squirrel, thanks for the replies,

I've now ordered the book from amazon. I've also done some googling that took me to the landships forum where some posts, (yours included Centurian) models and pictures began to fill in some blanks. I look forward to reading more.

thanks again, ET

Link to comment
Share on other sites

ET

Another source of information which is readily available is "Cameos of the Western Front - Salient Points Two" which includes a chapter on Fray Bentos and other tanks involved in the same attack. I walked around St Julien to get a better idea of where they fought and this is covered in this post:

http://ypres1917.3.forumer.com/index.php?showtopic=806&st=10

Bernard

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Gwyn, Bernard,

Thanks for the pointer and tank details....very much appreciated. I'm thinking of illustrating the action but want to get the detail right.

cheers, ET

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Gwyn, Bernard,

Thanks for the pointer and tank details....very much appreciated. I'm thinking of illustrating the action but want to get the detail right.

cheers, ET

Eric,

have a look at the downside of http://tankmemorial.vpweb.co.uk/THE-MEMORIAL---PERSONALITIES.html ,

last year we had a ceremony of the spot where Fray Bentos got stuck near Gallipoli Farm in attendence of the grandsons of Capt. Richardson !

I'm studying the tanks in the Salient and this is one of the most remarkable stories !

Johan Vanbeselaere

Poelcapelle 1917 Association vzw

Belgium

Link to comment
Share on other sites

And I have only just returned from the TMYS to replace visitors book sheets.

I notice a Fray Bentos crew members relative has just signed the visitors book.

Please contact JVB on this one, you won't be dissapointed.

Please also check out the TMYS web site for the up and coming ceremony/tank action battlefield tour details.

Oh reference your gallantry award questions. 2 x MC's, 1 x DCM and half a dozen MM's would ensure this action would become a legend in it's own lifetime.

Best wishes

Chris

Tank Memorial Ypres Salient

Honorary Coordinator.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Johan, Chris

Many thanks for the addition info.............. and what a co-incidence for a crew member relative to have recently signed the visitors book!!

The Boilerplate War' arrived yesterday and I've now read the vivid and full account describing this remarkable action. I'm starting to get a good feel for the subject and have realised I've inadvertently picked up on what is a well known (amongst tank enthusiasts) episode. Hopefully I'll manage to do the subject justice.

again, thank you everyone. ET

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I believe it is not the actual F41 from the Gallipoli Farm action however, we played host to the Section Commanders relatives recently ( Capt Richardson MC )

I believe they also confirmed this F41 was basically destroyed by the end of the action. However, JVB will confirm I'm sure.

Chris.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Chris, you are correct. There is another picture of F41 being demonstrated in Berlin to a Swedish military mission. It is dated as January 1918 (Koch. 'Beutepanzer im Ersten Weltkrieg', p21). This is consistent with the date for the photo supplied by centurion. There is no way that the Germans could have retrieved Frey Bentos I by late 1917, even if it had not been destroyed. The Germans were not in undisputed possession of Gallipoli Farm until late in the Spring 1918 offensives. This was when the British abandoned the area.

There is an interesting aspect to the photo in Koch's book. It has an unditching beam in place. The word 'BOADICEA' is clearly visible on the back of the beam.

Robert

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As I said in post #4, the F41 paraded in Berlin is not the famous Fray Bentos but its replacement captured during the Battle of Cambrai. Others have demonstrated why the Germans could not have recovered that tank from the battlefield. I would only add that I know of no case of a tank lost during Third Ypres being recovered by the Germans.

Gwyn

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The tank demonstrated to the Kaiser does not appear to have been Fray Bentos I or II ! I've found a clip of the demo and the tank is female

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't think anyone here said the tank F41 was demonstrated to the Kaiser. But F41 was definitely Male. Ergo, the Female tank demonstrated to the Kaiser was a different tank. What's the source of your clip please? I'd be interested to see it myself.

Gwyn

post-20823-035430400 1285524723.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There is another clip on that site showing F 13 being driven by German troops. This still from another source shows the same thing post-9885-077495900 1285527254.jpg

I wonder if its the same tank in both cases.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for posting the video clip reference, centurion. Interestingly, the tank in the second half of the clip turns left slightly just before the clip finishes. It looks like a 'C' as the letter.

Robert

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for posting the video clip reference, centurion. Interestingly, the tank in the second half of the clip turns left slightly just before the clip finishes. It looks like a 'C' as the letter.

Robert

Yes I noted that but the view on the other side in the first part of the clip looks like an F and there does seem to be a playing card on both sides

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well spotted (pardon the pun). So we are left with the Kaiser having viewed a female British tank, as well as the possibility of his having seen F41 on another occasion. F41 could not have been Fray Bentos I, as this was destroyed in the Ypres salient and could not have been recovered by the Germans by January 1918. Finally, there is the interesting photograph of the captured F41 with 'BOEDICEA' written on the unditching beam. Other photos, such as the one presented by Gwyn above, clearly show F41 without an unditching beam.

Robert

Link to comment
Share on other sites

there is the interesting photograph of the captured F41 with 'BOEDICEA' written on the unditching beam. Other photos, such as the one presented by Gwyn above, clearly show F41 without an unditching beam.

Simples - F 41 is captured without its unditching beam which is later replaced with one from another salvaged tank.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The photo with the beam was taken, according to the caption, in January 1918. Gwyn, do you know when the photo that you posted was taken?

Robert

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It should also be noted that the beam was sometimes carried off the rails and lying lengthways on the roof of the tank (usually when the tank was not going into immediate action).If this were the case in Gwyn's photo it would be concealed by the tarpaulin.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...