ericthornton Posted 13 September , 2010 Share Posted 13 September , 2010 I'm reading 'Band of Brigands' at the moment and was struck by a sentence( pg292) that said that during the Passchendale offensive (around the 10th-13th August) the above tank got ahead of the infantry, was bogged down and then held out on its own for three days as a kind of pill box. Does anyone have any further information regarding this event. Tank type, detail of the action - were they alone or did they have any infantry support etc. It sounds quite a remarkable feat to hold out for three days. Were any gallantry awards given? thanks, ET Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 13 September , 2010 Share Posted 13 September , 2010 Try The Boiler Plate War by John Foley which contains extracts from an interview with one of the crew. Incidentally whilst ditched the tank was not too badly damaged - the Germans recovered it, repaired it and shipped it off to Berlin where it was demo'd in front of the Kaiser. Often wondered if it became one of the Friekorps tanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirrel Posted 13 September , 2010 Share Posted 13 September , 2010 Excellent book recommendation by Centurion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidearm Posted 13 September , 2010 Share Posted 13 September , 2010 The tank that went to Berlin was not the F41 that held out for three days. There were two F41s. The one that performed the feat mentioned in post #1 was 2329, a Mark IV Male. Accounts show that this tank suffered two penetrations behind the right hand outer track adjuster. The tank that went to Berlin was its replacement 8019, F41 "Fray Bentos II", another Mark IV Male but this one captured at Cambrai. The only discernable damage to this tank is a hole in the shield for the left hand 6 pounder. Nor did 8019 become a FreiKorps tank - it was dismantled for mechanical examination. For another account of the action of August 1917 see Mitchell's "Tank Warfare". Gwyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericthornton Posted 13 September , 2010 Author Share Posted 13 September , 2010 Centurian, Squirrel, thanks for the replies, I've now ordered the book from amazon. I've also done some googling that took me to the landships forum where some posts, (yours included Centurian) models and pictures began to fill in some blanks. I look forward to reading more. thanks again, ET Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jainvince Posted 13 September , 2010 Share Posted 13 September , 2010 ET Another source of information which is readily available is "Cameos of the Western Front - Salient Points Two" which includes a chapter on Fray Bentos and other tanks involved in the same attack. I walked around St Julien to get a better idea of where they fought and this is covered in this post: http://ypres1917.3.forumer.com/index.php?showtopic=806&st=10 Bernard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericthornton Posted 13 September , 2010 Author Share Posted 13 September , 2010 Gwyn, Bernard, Thanks for the pointer and tank details....very much appreciated. I'm thinking of illustrating the action but want to get the detail right. cheers, ET Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JVB Posted 16 September , 2010 Share Posted 16 September , 2010 Gwyn, Bernard, Thanks for the pointer and tank details....very much appreciated. I'm thinking of illustrating the action but want to get the detail right. cheers, ET Eric, have a look at the downside of http://tankmemorial.vpweb.co.uk/THE-MEMORIAL---PERSONALITIES.html , last year we had a ceremony of the spot where Fray Bentos got stuck near Gallipoli Farm in attendence of the grandsons of Capt. Richardson ! I'm studying the tanks in the Salient and this is one of the most remarkable stories ! Johan Vanbeselaere Poelcapelle 1917 Association vzw Belgium Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrislock Posted 17 September , 2010 Share Posted 17 September , 2010 And I have only just returned from the TMYS to replace visitors book sheets. I notice a Fray Bentos crew members relative has just signed the visitors book. Please contact JVB on this one, you won't be dissapointed. Please also check out the TMYS web site for the up and coming ceremony/tank action battlefield tour details. Oh reference your gallantry award questions. 2 x MC's, 1 x DCM and half a dozen MM's would ensure this action would become a legend in it's own lifetime. Best wishes Chris Tank Memorial Ypres Salient Honorary Coordinator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericthornton Posted 17 September , 2010 Author Share Posted 17 September , 2010 Johan, Chris Many thanks for the addition info.............. and what a co-incidence for a crew member relative to have recently signed the visitors book!! The Boilerplate War' arrived yesterday and I've now read the vivid and full account describing this remarkable action. I'm starting to get a good feel for the subject and have realised I've inadvertently picked up on what is a well known (amongst tank enthusiasts) episode. Hopefully I'll manage to do the subject justice. again, thank you everyone. ET Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 17 September , 2010 Share Posted 17 September , 2010 F41 in Berlin in the winter of 1917 but is it Frey Bentos I or II? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrislock Posted 18 September , 2010 Share Posted 18 September , 2010 I believe it is not the actual F41 from the Gallipoli Farm action however, we played host to the Section Commanders relatives recently ( Capt Richardson MC ) I believe they also confirmed this F41 was basically destroyed by the end of the action. However, JVB will confirm I'm sure. Chris. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Dunlop Posted 18 September , 2010 Share Posted 18 September , 2010 Chris, you are correct. There is another picture of F41 being demonstrated in Berlin to a Swedish military mission. It is dated as January 1918 (Koch. 'Beutepanzer im Ersten Weltkrieg', p21). This is consistent with the date for the photo supplied by centurion. There is no way that the Germans could have retrieved Frey Bentos I by late 1917, even if it had not been destroyed. The Germans were not in undisputed possession of Gallipoli Farm until late in the Spring 1918 offensives. This was when the British abandoned the area. There is an interesting aspect to the photo in Koch's book. It has an unditching beam in place. The word 'BOADICEA' is clearly visible on the back of the beam. Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrislock Posted 18 September , 2010 Share Posted 18 September , 2010 BODICEA? Fascinating tank stuff and thank you for that Robert. Johan, wake up. Your input is needed here! Chris. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidearm Posted 25 September , 2010 Share Posted 25 September , 2010 As I said in post #4, the F41 paraded in Berlin is not the famous Fray Bentos but its replacement captured during the Battle of Cambrai. Others have demonstrated why the Germans could not have recovered that tank from the battlefield. I would only add that I know of no case of a tank lost during Third Ypres being recovered by the Germans. Gwyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 25 September , 2010 Share Posted 25 September , 2010 The tank demonstrated to the Kaiser does not appear to have been Fray Bentos I or II ! I've found a clip of the demo and the tank is female Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidearm Posted 26 September , 2010 Share Posted 26 September , 2010 I don't think anyone here said the tank F41 was demonstrated to the Kaiser. But F41 was definitely Male. Ergo, the Female tank demonstrated to the Kaiser was a different tank. What's the source of your clip please? I'd be interested to see it myself. Gwyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 26 September , 2010 Share Posted 26 September , 2010 http://www.criticalpast.com/video/65675061616_Wilhelm-Kaiser_captured-British-Mark-IV-heavy-tank_World-War-I_tank-destroys-lamppost I have seen references to the Kaiser having a demo by a Fray Bentos (F41) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 26 September , 2010 Share Posted 26 September , 2010 There is another clip on that site showing F 13 being driven by German troops. This still from another source shows the same thing I wonder if its the same tank in both cases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Dunlop Posted 26 September , 2010 Share Posted 26 September , 2010 Thanks for posting the video clip reference, centurion. Interestingly, the tank in the second half of the clip turns left slightly just before the clip finishes. It looks like a 'C' as the letter. Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 26 September , 2010 Share Posted 26 September , 2010 Thanks for posting the video clip reference, centurion. Interestingly, the tank in the second half of the clip turns left slightly just before the clip finishes. It looks like a 'C' as the letter. Robert Yes I noted that but the view on the other side in the first part of the clip looks like an F and there does seem to be a playing card on both sides Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Dunlop Posted 27 September , 2010 Share Posted 27 September , 2010 Well spotted (pardon the pun). So we are left with the Kaiser having viewed a female British tank, as well as the possibility of his having seen F41 on another occasion. F41 could not have been Fray Bentos I, as this was destroyed in the Ypres salient and could not have been recovered by the Germans by January 1918. Finally, there is the interesting photograph of the captured F41 with 'BOEDICEA' written on the unditching beam. Other photos, such as the one presented by Gwyn above, clearly show F41 without an unditching beam. Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 27 September , 2010 Share Posted 27 September , 2010 there is the interesting photograph of the captured F41 with 'BOEDICEA' written on the unditching beam. Other photos, such as the one presented by Gwyn above, clearly show F41 without an unditching beam. Simples - F 41 is captured without its unditching beam which is later replaced with one from another salvaged tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Dunlop Posted 27 September , 2010 Share Posted 27 September , 2010 The photo with the beam was taken, according to the caption, in January 1918. Gwyn, do you know when the photo that you posted was taken? Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 27 September , 2010 Share Posted 27 September , 2010 It should also be noted that the beam was sometimes carried off the rails and lying lengthways on the roof of the tank (usually when the tank was not going into immediate action).If this were the case in Gwyn's photo it would be concealed by the tarpaulin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now