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Remembered Today:

Visiting battlefields for first time


Guest joanne

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Guest Joanne

Hi Pals,

Just wondered if any pals could give me advice about visiting the battlefields. I have specific things I definitely want to do. I want to go to a specific spot on Paschendaele where my great uncle was killed to pay respects (a pal in another thread talked about planting a tree, which I thought was a lovely idea...provided it's not in the middle of a motorway!). I also want to go to Tyne Cot were he is commemorated. And I want to go to Arras cemetary to visit the grave of another great uncle.

But I also want to learn more about the Great War generally and find out more the Somme, Ypres and so on.

So, what's the best thing to do? Do you think a tour is the best option? Are there any good ones? Are they flexible? Or should I do something less organised?

Any advice would be gratefully received. Oh, and is there a good time to go to the battlefields, or does it not matter?

Thanks Pals.

Joanne

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No doubt you will get a lot of advice on this one. I think it is probably best to go with an organised tour for your first visit. At one time there were only a couple of companies in the market but things have mushroomed in the last few years and now every coach tour company in Britain seem to offer battlefields tours. The quality varies enormously as far as I can see, so you need to choose carefully. I haven't been on somebody else's tour for 15 years so am rather out of touch. Leger, Titan and Holts seem to be three of the bigger names. I used to go with Holts' in the days when Major and Mrs Holt actually came on the tours, so that was a few moons ago.

An alternative would be to go under your own steam to Ypres and then take one of the minibus shuttle tours run by British ex-pats there to get your bearings then strike out on your own. I recommend the map that accompanies the Holts Battlefield Guide To The Ypres Salient as invaluable.

Where exactly was your great uncle killed?

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Guest Brummy

Whilst working in cemetaries I have in the past over heard many of the guides talking and would agree with Mark about using the etasblished larger companies (especialy Leger and holts) But have found with the localy run mini bus tours that the quality of the guides varies greatly from the very knowelegable to somebody that once flicked through the Lady birds childrens book of WW1. Using the local mini bus guides can be a bit hit and miss rather than doing this I would advise that you iether go with one of the established companies or purchace the relivent Holt's guide books and go independantly. Hope this helps.

Brum

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If i am free i am happy to guide you around.

This moment i am guide Mr. John Reed.

You can ask his opinion on me...

I don't ask money, knowing people, helping in their research is more than enough for me.

I live in Flanders 3km from Tyne Cot.

mail me if you want more info.

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Joanne,

I did the same thing a few years ago, and based on experience I would agree with Mark. I spent a lot of time researching what I wanted to see before I went over. While I was there I had a car so I could adjust my schedule according to the weather. In Flander's Fields is a great museum in Ieper and L'Historial de La Grande Guerre in Peronne covers the Somme battle exceptionally well too. I would certainly make time to spend time at both of those.

I think when I go back I would look into a day tour of certain areas, but since guides can very I would do some research into that as well.

Andy

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Joanne

Again, I agree with Mark. The only thing that I would like to point out is that with bigger tour companies it might be hit and miss as to whether you get to see all the things that you want to see in one itinerary.

Although more expensive there are a number of small but high quality companies who will, if asked, get most of the things that you want to see in one trip. Sometimes they will even provide some basic NA research within the price.

I went 3 times with one of these companies and now feel quite happy driving around on my own. If this is your thing I can't recommend Before Endevours Fade by Rose Coombes enough as a basic primer and driving companion.

Regards

Andy

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I can't recommend Before Endevours Fade by Rose Coombes enough as a basic primer and driving companion.

I certainly agree with this statement. Never having been with a tour company, I can't comment on any of them, but "Before Endeavours Fade" in numerous updated forms has been a constant companion of mine in nearly 25 years of Western Front visits.

Because of this book, and the subsequent knowledge gained by it's use, I've never felt the need to go on a tour.

Dave.

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I have never been on a tour, I tend to take Holts as the 'Bible'. But I do have Before Endevours Fade. I am visitng the Somme in July and will probably take Before Endevours Fade as my first choice.

As I said can't comment on a tour, but Holts has told me everything I need to know

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Guest Joanne
No doubt you will get a lot of advice on this one. I think it is probably best to go with an organised tour for your first visit. At one time there were only a couple of companies in the market but things have mushroomed in the last few years and now every coach tour company in Britain seem to offer battlefields tours. The quality varies enormously as far as I can see, so you need to choose carefully. I haven't been on somebody else's tour for 15 years so am rather out of touch. Leger, Titan and Holts seem to be three of the bigger names. I used to go with Holts' in the days when Major and Mrs Holt actually came on the tours, so that was a few moons ago.

An alternative would be to go under your own steam to Ypres and then take one of the minibus shuttle tours run by British ex-pats there to get your bearings then strike out on your own. I recommend the map that accompanies the Holts Battlefield Guide To The Ypres Salient as invaluable.

Where exactly was your great uncle killed?

Hi Mark

Many thanks for this advice. I was considering a tour but as you say I need to be a bit careful about the choice. I'll certainly have a look at those you've suggested. It's appreciated. And thanks for recommending the map and book, that will be invaluable I feel.

Now I have the war diary pages of the day my great uncle was killed, he was a private so he is not named, but I know that 19 'other ranks' died on that night and the next day. The battalion (16th HLI) was involved in an offensive on a machine gun position, so they advanced from Bellevue to Void Farm ...there were casualities from machine gun fire at that stage (near Void Farm). So that may have been Hugh. Or later in the day the battalion HQ at Bellvue suffered a direct hit and 7 OR were killed. So that's possible. So I would want to go to Void Farm and Bellevue (or what's there now). I wonder if Kristof would know where it is. Thanks a lot.

Joanne

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Guest Joanne
Whilst working in cemetaries I have in the past over heard many of the guides talking and would agree with Mark about using the etasblished larger companies (especialy Leger and holts) But have found with the localy run mini bus tours that the quality of the guides varies greatly from the very knowelegable to somebody that once flicked through the Lady birds childrens book of WW1. Using the local mini bus guides can be a bit hit and miss rather than doing this I would advise that you iether go with one of the established companies or purchace the relivent Holt's guide books and go independantly. Hope this helps.

Brum

Hi Brum

Yes, your advice does help. If I'm going to the battlefields I sure want to learn something, so thanks for that tip. :)

Best wishes

Joanne

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Guest Joanne
If i am free i am happy to guide you around.

This moment i am guide Mr. John Reed.

You can ask his opinion on me...

I don't ask money, knowing people, helping in their research is more than enough for me.

I live in Flanders 3km from Tyne Cot.

mail me if you want more info.

hi Kristof,

That's really good of you, I really appreciate your offer. I'll email you to see if you're free when I come over. :) My great uncle possibly died near Void Farm or Bellevue...do you know these places at all?

All the best.

Joanne

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hi Kristof,

That's really good of you, I really appreciate your offer. I'll email you to see if you're free when I come over. :) My great uncle possibly died near Void Farm or Bellevue...do you know these places at all?

All the best.

Joanne

joanne here you have some info on it:

bellvue cemetery

http://www.silentcities.co.uk/cemeteryb/bellevuebritcem.htm

i don't know void farm... sorry

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Guest Joanne
Joanne,

I did the same thing a few years ago, and based on experience I would agree with Mark. I spent a lot of time researching what I wanted to see before I went over. While I was there I had a car so I could adjust my schedule according to the weather. In Flander's Fields is a great museum in Ieper and L'Historial de La Grande Guerre in Peronne covers the Somme battle exceptionally well too. I would certainly make time to spend time at both of those.

I think when I go back I would look into a day tour of certain areas, but since guides can very I would do some research into that as well.

Andy

Hi Andy

Thank you this helps me to prioritise what I want to see and do. I also intend to do a bit a research before hand to get the most out of it. So, I need to balance whether to do a tour or be more independent and possibly day tours. As you say, the more info I can get on these the better.

Gosh, I've got a lot to think about from everyone.

Thanks again. looking forward to going already.

Joanne

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Guest Joanne
I strongly recommend a tour, Leger or Flanders TOurs are excellent.

Thanks Paul,

These are now on my list of websites to check out.

Best wishes

Joanne

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Guest Joanne
Joanne

Again, I agree with Mark. The only thing that I would like to point out is that with bigger tour companies it might be hit and miss as to whether you get to see all the things that you want to see in one itinerary.

Although more expensive there are a number of small but high quality companies who will, if asked, get most of the things that you want to see in one trip. Sometimes they will even provide some basic NA research within the price.

I went 3 times with one of these companies and now feel quite happy driving around on my own. If this is your thing I can't recommend Before Endevours Fade by Rose Coombes enough as a basic primer and driving companion.

Regards

Andy

That's appreciated Andy, yes, I did feel that well I really don't want to be in a big coach party or anything. It's kind of too personal for that, if that makes sense. It's like you want to be with like minded people if that's not too fanciful! So, I definitely have a lot of research to do.

Thank you for the book with you and Dave's recommendation....it's a definite for me!

Joanne

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Joanne.

The Bellevue that you are looking for is actually located approxomately 1mile west of Passendale village.

Here's a trench map extract showing the location (centre of scan) in mid 1917.

Dave.

post-12-1086819090.jpg

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Guest Joanne

hi Kristof,

That's really good of you, I really appreciate your offer. I'll email you to see if you're free when I come over.  :) My great uncle possibly died near Void Farm or Bellevue...do you know these places at all?

All the best.

Joanne

joanne here you have some info on it:

bellvue cemetery

http://www.silentcities.co.uk/cemeteryb/bellevuebritcem.htm

i don't know void farm... sorry

Hi kristof,

Thanks for the website. I had a look at Bellvue cemetary and Bellvue Farm and I guess it must be the same place. In the war diary it talks about operations on Passchendaele Ridge and mentions Bellevue, Bellevue pillbox (machine gun position), Venture Farm, Virile Farm, Mallet Copse, Vox Farm and Void Farm. I wonder if these are all long gone now.

best wishes

Joanne

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Joanne

Best thing about BEF (the book) is that it has words, pictures and itineries mapped out using the Michelin series maps with the cemetery overprints, and it is only about 15 quid.

Regards

Andy

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Guest Joanne
Joanne.

The Bellevue that you are looking for is actually located approxomately 1mile west of Passendale village.

Here's a trench map extract showing the location (centre of scan) in mid 1917.

Dave.

Dave that is so helpful...

In the diary it was spelt Bellevue. I just thought they spelt it wrongly.

Is Bellvue Farm/cemetary different from Bellevue?

Where is the map from?

Many thanks.

Joanne

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Here's a trench map extract showing the location (centre of scan) in mid 1917.

...and a modern map showwing the rough location (red circle) of Bellevue today in relation to Passendale village and Tyne Cot cemetery.

Dave.

post-12-1086819764.jpg

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Is Bellvue Farm/cemetary different from Bellevue?

Where is the map from?

Joanne,

The Bellvue cemetery isn't even in the same country!!!! :D

The map is from my own collection, though there is a similar one on the IWM trench map archive CD-Rom.

Dave.

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Thanks Dave to tell me,

i live nearby Joanne.

I already know where the exact spot is !!!!

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Is Bellvue Farm/cemetary different from Bellevue?

Where is the map from?

Joanne,

The Bellvue cemetery isn't even in the same country!!!! :D

The map is from my own collection, though there is a similar one on the IWM trench map archive CD-Rom.

Dave.

Hey Dave that's brilliant, thanks for the map and for pinpointing it. It doesn't look far from Tynecot, so visiting both should be relatively easy (if I've not misjudged the scale). Actually, I wonder if cycling round there would be good. (Have to ask Kristoff).

Thanks for the map reference, it might be worth getting.

All the best kind regards

Joanne

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