(UK) Meritorious Service Medal

[auchonvillerssomme]

There were MSM's awarded to 3 French nationals attached to the 8th Division during WW1.

Can anyone tell me how common was the award of the MSM to foreign nationals?

Mick

[mhifle]

Hi,

This is from 'The Meritorious Service Medal - The Immediate Awards 1916-1928' by Ian McInnes

In addition to the 875 medals Air Ministry Lists of 19 July and 10 December 1919 contain details of honorary awards as follows:

France 7

Greece 4

Italy 1

USA 4

Slavo-British Aviation Corps 1

Total 17

Regards Mark

[Nigel Marshall]

Mark,

I'd suggest these awards are to allied airmen and not a final figure.

If Mick has details of 3 awards to personnel attached to a single division and these numbers would make up almost half of the total, that would be pretty significant wouldn't it?

I also have the book you quoted from, I'll have a look when I get home to see if a fresh pair of eyes can find anything.

Cheers,

Nigel

[mhifle]

Hi Nigel,

You could be correct.

There is a note 'Only one hundred and twenty one RAF MSM,s have been traced by the author. In view of the number of collectors of Royal Air Force medals this is a surprisingly low number.'

Also 4 were for gallantry-

Sgts Dudley and Lewis, 11th American Aero Sqn

Acting Corporal Meckel, 163rd American Aero Sqn

Seaman Mechanist (Stoker) Policisto, late Italian Royal Navy

[auchonvillerssomme]

I can find no reference to the men in the LG, were the bravery awards gazetted do you know?

Mick

[auchonvillerssomme]

The men I mentioned are:

Marechel de Logis M. L. J. Benard, 19e Escad du Train att 25th Inf Bde

1st Class Interpreter E. Lehoucq att R.A.

Soldat (1ere Cl) A. Martin, French Army att 8th Divl Train

[Nigel Marshall]

Although Allied awards to British and Empire personnel were gazetted, I'm not sure the same is true of the reverse scenario; British awards to allied personnel. Could that be connected to the fact that these awards were not named?

Gallantry MSMs were gazetted and the column header made it clear that the MSMs which followed were for gallantry.

Cheers,

Nigel

[mhifle]

Hi,

This ia all there is for these awards.

Mark

Sgts Dudley and Lewis, 11th American Aero Sqn 'for gallant conduct & devotion to duty on 23rd March 1918, at Stamford Northamptonshire' (see Horse and Spike (Aust. FC) and Howard (RFC) ante)

Acting Corporal Meckel, 163rd American Aero Sqn, 'for gallant conduct and devotion to duty on 12th June 1918, at Narborough, Norfolk.'

Seaman Mechanist (Stoker) Policisto, late Italian Royal Navy, 'for gallant conduct on 26th July 1919, at Albenga, Italy, in rescuing a British aviator who was in imminent danger of drowning'.

[Staffsyeoman]

I think the Gallantry MSMs were distinguished by the header "For gallantry in the performance of military duty" - which was the title of John Sainsbury's monograph on the subject.

As to the low number of RAF WW1 MSMs - are we on a level playing field, i.e. awards to the RAF propoer and not/not including awards to the RFC? I wouldn't be surprised to find a relatively low level named RAF for such ashort period. between spring 1918 and when the MSM ceased to be used in this way.

[HarryBettsMCDCM]

As to the low number of RAF WW1 MSMs - are we on a level playing field, i.e. awards to the RAF propoer and not/not including awards to the RFC? I wouldn't be surprised to find a relatively low level named RAF for such ashort period. between spring 1918 and when the MSM ceased to be used in this way.

The RAF MSM was a new award in 1918/9;RFC Personnel were awarded the Army MSM as the RFC was a part of the British Army

RAF Pure awards are uncommon in line with all pure RAF awards DFC/AFC/AFM/DFM of that period.Indeed that said there were not that many MSMs to the RFC!!!

The normal MSM is also relatively scarce by unit [as are Allied Decorations in truth],with often only a mere handful to each Battalion [& if you delve deeper into Corps & Royal Artillery RE,etc by Company,Battery,etc they too take on a new aspect,there being far fewer MSMs than MMs in total,so the total figure for the Allied awards I would not consider to be too far off the mark.

[Raldal]

With regard to awards of the MSM to Allied Nations :

The Statistics of the Military Effort of the British Empire during the Great War Gives:

France 405

Russia 19

Italy 38

Belgium 74

Serbia 57

Roumania 30

Portugal 4

Greece 6

USA 35

Total 668

[auchonvillerssomme]

Thats excellent thank you, when I first thought about it, the MSM didn't seem to be the most obvious award but then I suppose the Britsh awards available are fairly scarce at the lower end of reward.

Mick

As an aside was there any precedence for the award to civilians?