Lee Enfield Rifle

[Guest redrum]

I have an Enfield rifle stamped with BSA co./G.R. 1917 on breech. I know little about this rifle except the obvious- it was used by the Army in both wars and after for some time. I have seen rifles with a brass disc on the butt which mine has not.

Was this just a makers mark of sorts?

[bkristof]

the brass piece was marked with the number of the rifle + the regiment.

It was not used in WW2 so posibly your rifle has a ww2 stock.

But i believe that late in ww1 this was also the case...

[Guest Hill 60]

Redrum - If you have a look HERE I'm sure you'll find a link to an expert on the Lee-Enfield who will give you an indepth answer.

[Guest GeauxTigers]

There were several differances. The No. 1 Mk. III had a windage adjustable rear sight, magazine cutoff, "volley sights", a brass disc in the stock for unit markings, and a semi-round cocking piece.

The No. 1 Mk. III*, which became standard in Jan., 1916, deleted all of these and the cocking piece was changed to a flat, serrated shape. However, many stocks were made for the Mk. III and used on the Mk. III*.

And when a rifle was turned for an FTR (Factory Thorough Rebuild), many were upgraded to Mk. III* standard. So, finding a rifle in as built configuration is very difficult. I've seen two recently, going for $600 US.

[Guest redrum]

Thank you all for this information. I have it seems a M111* rifle on closer inspection, used no doubt in the last half of the war. I paid £160. for it last year,complete with sling and an oiler in the butt space.

[Guest GeauxTigers]

Check it carefully, Redrum. I had a Mk. III* dated 1914. During an FTR, it was upgraded from Mk. III to MK. III*. In fact, the cutoff slot and proper forestock was still in place.

[Guest redrum]

Thank you GeauxTigers for the extra help. I bought this rifle on a whim as it looked in first rate condition as a display piece. There looks like a period etched cross or "X" on flat of the butt, possibly a first "kill"? Horrible thought I suppose. I only noticed it when I got it home.

[Guest Hill 60]

There looks like a period etched cross on flat of the butt, possibly a first "kill"? Horrible thought I suppose.

Or a soldier's attempt to gain support from the Big Field Marshall in the Sky?

[cooper]

I have an unusual Enfield, It was originally a No.1 Mk1 manufactured in 1906.

It then went through a refurb at the Ishapore factory in 1915.It was upgraded to a No.1 Mk1**. Markings in the stock include ADL.53 in a roundel stamped on the butt (dont know what this means),there is another however but cannot remember what it is.

It doesnt have a cut off, but does have the serrate cocking piece.

All I know about this is that it came into the UK in a tank during WWII from North Afirca as a souvenier. Nothing else is known.

Any info would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Cooper

[Guest Paul_9686]

Well, this string is about SMLEs, so this is the best place to ask, I reckon.

What material was an original SMLE sling made of--leather, or webbing?

Thanks in advance.

Yours,

Paul

[Guest GeauxTigers]

Cooper: The slot and screw hole for the cut off should still be there, it may be covered by a Mk. III* stock. If you wanted, it would be a good project for restoration. There are several good titles for Enfields, most very modest in price. I'd get one of those and go through the rifle part by part and see how much has been changed.

Paul: Both types were used in W.W. 1, but leather is more common in my experience. Today, a leather sling will go for about $40 US, the canvas for about $10 US if unmarked, often less.

[Barry Q]

Looking through WWI photo's, leather slings seem to be more common. There was (I believe) a leather sling issued with the P1914 issue leather webbing set. I use a leather sling for a Martini Henry. New reproductions ones can be bought for a reasonable price. In my experence (based on what I was issued with in the Army), old Martini slings could've well have been issued during WWI for the SMLE. Hell, if I was issued (along with the others) with a WWII dated sling for my SLR in the early 80's, then who could say that a Martini Henry sling would be wrong for WWI?

[Guest Paul_9686]

Thanks, friends. I have a leather sling on my SMLE--a civvie sling I bought about a decade or more ago. I can't recall who the maker was, but it's dark brown in color and it has a pair of double-claw adjustment hooks on it, both colored like brass. They've kind of dulled with age. It also has a pair of sliding loops.

I imagine it'll do until I can find a proper used original or new replica SMLE sling of either webbing or canvas material.

Yours,

Paul

[Guest Paul_9686]

Another question: how common was it for a British officer to carry a SMLE in action? I'm thinking that a man with nothing in his hands but a revolver would receive unwelcome attention from German snipers and sharpshooters; an officer, for his own good, would seek to more or less "blend in" with his men--or so it seems. Thanks again in advance.

Yours,

Paul

[Guest GeauxTigers]

Paul, That's a good question. The only reference I've seen came in the movie "ANZACS" from several years ago. One of the NCOs was comissioned, and pinned his "pips" on his ORs tunic and otherwise looked like any other "Digger." But, that was a movie. In one of the Osprey books, on British field equipment, there is one of Chappell's figures, wearing ORs clothing with officer rank, but carring a revolver.

[Guest Paul_9686]

I suppose I'm thinking of Damian Lewis portraying Richard Winters in Band of Brothers, Geaux. But really, it just makes sense for an officer to not draw undue attention to himself. How many people would be quick-witted enough to spot the pistol holster on the waist of a man otherwise armed with a SMLE? And in the middle of a firefight, to boot.

Yours,

Paul

[terryb95]

Don't forget that the officer would have bino's, map case etc which would help draw the crabs,

Terry

[Guest Paul_9686]

It seems to me, Terry, that in the excitement and confusion of an infantry fire-fight, small details like map cases, binoculars, etc. might escape the notice of all but the most "situationally-aware" soldiers--but a soldier carrying a SMLE like everyone else would pretty much blend in with all the rest of the anonymous "poor bloody infantry".

I admit I've never been in an infantry fire-fight; nor would I like to experience one first-hand.

Yours,

Paul