PhilB Posted 8 June , 2004 Share Posted 8 June , 2004 Well, bk, if they`re not wearing sporrans, what are the triangular shapes in the front of the kilt covers? Is it a pocket in the cover? Phil B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Gordon Posted 8 June , 2004 Share Posted 8 June , 2004 Joanne/Joe Pleased to divulge my source for statement re puttees/Gordons. I had some correspondence with Mike Chappell in March, 1993 and he kindly volunteered the infomation about the wearing of puttees. I have tried to add an image of the relevant paragraph from the letter as an attachment. Hope it is legible ! Joe - You are absolutely correct re the 1/6th. H.L.I. serving with 52nd (Lowland) in Egypt and Palestine. But surely their service there did not start until 1916 after their withdrawal from Gallipoli and the photo is clearly marked 1915. The lad in the "undiced" Glengarry could have been a piper as, I have been told by a member of the Forum that pipers never wore diced Glengarries despite evidence in another photo of mine that at least one did. Another thing that baffles me is that the Sergeant is standing and the Corporal sitting. Sergeants weren't usually that considerate Regards Jim Gordon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Godden Posted 8 June , 2004 Share Posted 8 June , 2004 Phil B, The triangles at the front are probably contents of the pocket sewn on the front of the kilt cover. All the best, Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Joanne Posted 8 June , 2004 Share Posted 8 June , 2004 Joanne Re your soldier in the kilt. I think he is a Gordon Highlander. Only the Gordons wore the full puttee wound up to the knee. Other Highland Regiments wore a half-puttee the rest being the hose. The clincher, however, is missing. 1.e. the garters which were "belled" in the case of the Gordons. Joe is slightly incorrect about the 2nd. Gordons. No Gordon battalion served outwith France except the 2nd. Gordons but they served in Italy and not in any tropical clime. I must admit the jackets do suggest a tropical association. He is certainly correct about it being taken in 1915. That is written on the photo. The 2nd. Gordons incidentally served in France until November 1917 when they were moved to Italy. He is quite correct re the difficulty in getting the Gordon yellow stripe on the tartan to show up in photos of that era but I have seen a few where it was visible. Regards Jim Gordon Hi Jim Many thanks for your information, it's a real education. But help! Im getting confused! It's just that their dress suggests that they are off to somewhere hot or tropical in 1915, yet as you say, if they were Gordon Highlanders then the only battalion that went outwith France did so in 1917. So, am I being thrown by their dress, could they be heading off to France looking like that??? France was perhaps tropical for Glaswegians!!! Thanks again for the info. All the best Joanne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Posted 8 June , 2004 Share Posted 8 June , 2004 1/6th HLI from the book. Aye Malcolm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Joanne Posted 8 June , 2004 Share Posted 8 June , 2004 There is no doubt in my mind that this is the 1/6th Bn Highland Light Infantry. 1. Glasgow Regiment. 2. Bn Served in 52nd Division in Middle-East 3. Bn wore Mackenzie tartan kilts. (6th and 9th HLI were kilted) 4. HLI had no dicing on glengarry. The only other alternative would be 1st Seaforths but I haven't seen any photos of them wearing their puttees in that fashion. Brownag, Thanks for this. I didn't realise that some battalions in the HLI wore kilts. And the fact they served in the ME. It would actually be quite good if he was in the HLI because I have another great uncle (not his relation) in the 16th HLI....means I could research both of them over at the Highland Fusiliers museum in Glasgow! Cheers for your input. Joanne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Joanne Posted 8 June , 2004 Share Posted 8 June , 2004 Joe - You are absolutely correct re the 1/6th. H.L.I. serving with 52nd (Lowland) in Egypt and Palestine. But surely their service there did not start until 1916 after their withdrawal from Gallipoli and the photo is clearly marked 1915. ..Another thing that baffles me is that the Sergeant is standing and the Corporal sitting. Sergeants weren't usually that considerate. Regards Jim Gordon Joe, Tim, Jim, Malcom, Kristof, Does the consensus seem to be the 6th HLI? It does look like it from the photograph (although I find the soldiers kilts difficult to see - if I remember from school the MacKenzie as having a lot of green and dark blue, and the blackwatch being a darker more intense tartan but I could be wrong). I just wondered what anybody thought about Joe's points above. Was the battalion's service in Gallipoli, Egypt and Palestine? And could the photo be taken then before they went to Gallipoli then? Or is that completely off? To me it looks as if there are two corporals (one great uncle seated) and a lance corporal standing) but I also think it looks as if great uncle is the senior rank somehow. He just looks more relaxed and confident but of course could be that he's older or something. Once again thanks for all the info, your knowledge is seriously impressive! Joanne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brownag Posted 8 June , 2004 Share Posted 8 June , 2004 The Glengarry is also incorrect for Seaforths. Tim He could be a Seaforth Piper? However the more I look at the original image the more I think it's a HLI badge on the glengarry. It's certainly not the stag's head of the Seaforths. All As to the date, when did the 52nd Div. return from Galliopli to Egypt? Was it December 1915? Would the reuturn to Egypt mean an issue of new kit? Could they have been wounded/ sick men evacuated to Mudros or another port? Slightly off-topic but am I right in saying 1/6th HLI were the only kilted unit at Gallipoli? Joanne Are there any clues on the back of the photo to where it was taken? Cheers Adam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myrtle Posted 8 June , 2004 Share Posted 8 June , 2004 To me it looks as if there are two corporals (one great uncle seated) and a lance corporal standing) but I also think it looks as if great uncle is the senior rank somehow. He just looks more relaxed and confident but of course could be that he's older or something. Looks like soldier standing on left and seated soldier are lance corporals and the soldier standing on the right is the corporal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Joanne Posted 8 June , 2004 Share Posted 8 June , 2004 Hi Myrtle Yes, oopps got that the wrong way round. I guess they could just be pals and great uncle John was just more gallus, as we say in Glasgow. Ta Joanne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Joanne Posted 8 June , 2004 Share Posted 8 June , 2004 Hi Adam, No there is no address for the photographer. It has only 'brother John' written on it. Do you think it may not have been taken in Glasgow? I don't know if this makes sense but I have a feeling it was not taken in Glasgow. It's just the carpet, and the background it looks different to the other photos I have (of other relatives) and the fact their uniforms look a bit sort of messy. You know cause they could go home and sort of be cleaned and pressed type of thing. Does that make sense? Joanne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myrtle Posted 8 June , 2004 Share Posted 8 June , 2004 Joanne It also may have been the photographer arranging the men so that the picture was balanced. If your Uncle John was taller than the other two it would have been preferable for the photographer, that your Uncle John sat in the centre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkristof Posted 8 June , 2004 Share Posted 8 June , 2004 Well, bk, if they`re not wearing sporrans, what are the triangular shapes in the front of the kilt covers? Is it a pocket in the cover? Phil B yes it is! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Sweeney Posted 8 June , 2004 Share Posted 8 June , 2004 Joanne, The 1/6th HLI left England on 26 May 1915 and landed in Alexandria, Egypt on 5 June. They left Alexandria on 28 June. Photo could have been taken there or even in England prior to departure as they most likely recieved KD before departure. Left Gallipoli for Mudros on 8 Jan 1916 and then to Egypt in February. Many photo ops in mid east in 1915 and early 1916 for 1/6th. I would guess that it might have been taken in Alexandria in June 1915. Many if not most troops were in SD jackets at Mudros in Feb 1916. Joe Sweeney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Gordon Posted 9 June , 2004 Share Posted 9 June , 2004 Joanne On balance I agree with those who identify your photo as 1/6th. H.L.I. but may I take this opportunity to recant a previous statement of mine that no Gordon battalion served in a tropical climate. I admit that there is a hint of pedantry in the following but a body of Officers and N.C.O.s were detached for service with the King's African Rifles and the West African Regiment. Regards Jim Gordon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Gordon Posted 9 June , 2004 Share Posted 9 June , 2004 P.S. Sorry to bother you again but I would like to point out that one of the previous postings claiming Glasgow as the recruiting ground for the Gordon Highlanders is wrong. Their recruiting area was Morayshire, Banffshire, Aberdeenshire and Kincardineshire. This does not mean that no Glaswegians served with the Gordons in WW1. Regards yet again Jim Gordon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danny Posted 9 June , 2004 Share Posted 9 June , 2004 Jim There was I thinking that I was finally going to correct somebody on the forum (Glasgow being the recruiting ground for Gordons). I had to scroll to the last post to find out that I had been pipped by yourself Danny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Joanne Posted 10 June , 2004 Share Posted 10 June , 2004 Joanne It also may have been the photographer arranging the men so that the picture was balanced. If your Uncle John was taller than the other two it would have been preferable for the photographer, that your Uncle John sat in the centre. That's a very good point Myrtle. Think you're right. Thanks Joanne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Joanne Posted 10 June , 2004 Share Posted 10 June , 2004 Joanne, The 1/6th HLI left England on 26 May 1915 and landed in Alexandria, Egypt on 5 June. They left Alexandria on 28 June. Photo could have been taken there or even in England prior to departure as they most likely recieved KD before departure. Left Gallipoli for Mudros on 8 Jan 1916 and then to Egypt in February. Many photo ops in mid east in 1915 and early 1916 for 1/6th. I would guess that it might have been taken in Alexandria in June 1915. Many if not most troops were in SD jackets at Mudros in Feb 1916. Joe Sweeney Hi Joe Many thanks again for this. Your dates are really useful. I think it is possible then that the photo may have been taken in Alexandria, which is really interesting to find out. (It could be England but somehow I think it was overseas...although can't justify this!) As I may have said before I have another great uncle in the HLI and I have been to the museum in Glasgow. So, I will visit again with this info and see if they have any documents on John's battalion (as well as Hugh's 16th HLI). Looking forward to another long day in the museum!!! Best wishes Joanne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Joanne Posted 10 June , 2004 Share Posted 10 June , 2004 P.S. Sorry to bother you again but I would like to point out that one of the previous postings claiming Glasgow as the recruiting ground for the Gordon Highlanders is wrong. Their recruiting area was Morayshire, Banffshire, Aberdeenshire and Kincardineshire. This does not mean that no Glaswegians served with the Gordons in WW1. Regards yet again Jim Gordon Hi Jim Thanks for all your contributions. And thanks for clarifying the Gordons' main recruitment areas. I think you're also right that, that does not mean that no Glaswegians served in them. I have a great uncle who was from Glasgow who served in the Cameron Highlanders and (and I hope this is right!!) Glasgow was not their main recruiting ground. Kind regards Joanne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Joanne Posted 10 June , 2004 Share Posted 10 June , 2004 Jim There was I thinking that I was finally going to correct somebody on the forum (Glasgow being the recruiting ground for Gordons). I had to scroll to the last post to find out that I had been pipped by yourself Danny Nae luck, Danny. But thanks for the thought! Wish I could get to the stage of being able to correct someone!!!!!!!! Best wishes Joanne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkristof Posted 10 June , 2004 Share Posted 10 June , 2004 nobody is perfect, so me neither... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brownag Posted 10 June , 2004 Share Posted 10 June , 2004 ...Gordon Highlanders... Their recruiting area was Morayshire, Banffshire, Aberdeenshire and Kincardineshire. Jim Sorry, It's my turn to be picky now but Morayshire belonged to the Seaforths. The local T.F. unit was the 6th Bn. Joanne The Camerons recruitment area was Inverness-shire and Nairnshire but those two counties alone couldn't keep two regular battalions up to strength so they recruited a lot of men in Glasgow. Cheers Adam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Gordon Posted 11 June , 2004 Share Posted 11 June , 2004 Adam Senility defintely comes with old age. You are , of course, absolutely correct with regard to Morayshire and the Seaforths. What, in the name of hell, was I thinking off. The avenging columns can now return to Fort George. Regards Jim Gordon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hliguy Posted 17 March , 2005 Share Posted 17 March , 2005 Dear Joanne, I'm late entering this speculation, but I would say that your man is a member of the 6th HLI. I have several photos of a man definitely in the 6th HLI and he's wearing a kilt and cover just like your uncle (?). Other photos in the short history of the 6th in WW1 shows almost identical uniforms as do private photos from the album of Capt. TM Macquaker, MC, 6th HLI, housed at the Leeds University Library special collections section. I don't believe the kilt cover is covering a sporran, but is a V shaped pocket in the front of the kilt cover. Note the button between the split at the bottom of the man's tunic on the right. I have numerous postcard photos of soldiers in my collection like the one you've shown and a good number of them have numbers in the photo such as yours. The photographer wrote the negative number in each neg so that he would get mixed up when passing out the printed photos. It is possible that the number 1915 is just a coincident and not a date. Which could mean that the photo could have been taken just about anywhere overseas including a tent just outside the camp boundries when out of the line. Why was your relative sitting while two higher ranks were standing? Maybe they were just holding him down because he was rambunctious??????? Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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