21st Battalion KRRC - the original Yeomen

[MBrockway]

Interesting new topic on C/12278 Rifleman Charles William DICKENSON, A Coy, 21/KRRC here ...

 

 

[keithmroberts]

All posts from recent days relating to the service of Harry Thompson have been moved to a new thread in the SOLDIERS sub forum. Please can any future discussion regarding him be continued there.  

 

Thanks all

 

 

Keith Roberts

GWF Team

[stiletto_33853]

Now that we seem to have got this thread back on track, followers of the 21st KRRC (Yeomans) might want to have a look at the auction for Dix, Noonan & Webb, late February 2019. A fine collection of medals from this battalion is being released back into the market, including Foljambe's DSO group.

 

https://www.dnw.co.uk/auctions/catalogue/results.php?auction_id=493&heading_id=385

 

Andy

[Liz in Eastbourne]

Thank you very much, Andy - an amazing sight.  I am not a medal collector but if I were, I'd love to have Foljambe's - he was clearly a terrific character and a very good leader of men.  I have to go out now but will have a proper look this evening.

Released back from where, I wonder?

Liz

[Liz in Eastbourne]

Rifleman Charles Agar Hope is one of the men whose medals are listed, along with those of his brother Alfred William.  I wrote about him on page 13 of this thread after visiting Lesboeufs:

 

[Liz in Eastbourne]

Another man whose medals are being sold, Cpl John George Halsey, 13096, hasn't previously been recorded here - he wasn't one of the original Yeoman Rifles.  He was born in June 1898 in Hampshire and may have joined the 21st KRRC in early 1917. He survived the war, subsequently serving with the 2nd KRRC in Palestine. 

[Liz in Eastbourne]

Of the group of four riflemen whose British War and Victory medals are for sale, one, Percy James Higgins, R/16702, was also probably not an 'original'. as he was from Kent, but he could have been with them from 1916.

The other three were all originals, and I had nothing on them so it's interesting to be able to include them here.  All survived the war.

Acting Sergeant (or Serjeant) Arthur Jackson C/12544 was wounded at Flers and was subsequently in the Royal Engineers. EDIT see next post but one for a suggested identification.

Rfn Sidney Charles Clough C12664, a bootmaker from Malton, died in 1925.

Rfn Charles Lloyd Wheldon C/13000 was a shipping clerk from Hull, 1885-1961. 

I have another Wheldon on file,  Hammond S, Wheldon C/12727, born  1896, from Farndale, who became a tenant farmer at East Moors on Feverham's estate.  He was on the Countess photo, and mentioned in the notes to  Dennis's book.  But I have not found anything to suggest they were related. 

 

Edited 22 January , 2019 by Liz in Eastbourne

[Liz in Eastbourne]

We mentioned Rfn Percy Simons C/12681, whose Military Medal is for sale,  earlier on this thread here.  He was a grocer from Moorsholm, Yorkshire and was in A Company. He died of wounds on 10 October 1916 and is commemorated on the Thiepval Memorial. 

 

A list of Yeoman Riflemen on that memorial including Simons is given here.

Edited 21 January , 2019 by Liz in Eastbourne

[Liz in Eastbourne]

Just realised I was wrong to say above that I had nothing on Acting Sjt Arthur Jackson, it's just that my notes are inconclusive.

 

I thought he might be the man on the B Company 7 Platoon photo named simply as 'Rifleman Jackson' but it was impossible to be certain, given that his military record appears to have been destroyed and so I did not know his age or place of origin, .  I thought he might be  a Sheffield man (1911 working as a warehouseman) born c 1888, or a Wakefield miner born c 1891.

 

The medal seller doesn't appear to have much on him either but perhaps this sale will prompt someone to come up with the answer to the question.

 

This is Rifleman Jackson cropped from the platoon photo:

 

 

Edited 22 January , 2019 by Liz in Eastbourne
Add link and photo

[Liz in Eastbourne]

The record of Lance Corporal Charles McKenzie Woolley C/12671, commemorated on the Thiepval Memorial, has survived, so I have notes on file about him which mostly correspond to those on the DNW website, where his British War Medal, death plaque and memorial scroll are for sale. He was 28 when he was killed at Gird Ridge, probably on 7 October 1916 as that website says, as that was when the attack took place (though its notes in small print say 10 October, see below).  As usual for the casualties around the time of that attack his casualty record says 5/10 October and both SDGW and CWGC records say 10 October.  He was born in Scalthwaiterigg, Westmoreland and educated in Kendal, but was a teacher in Eccleshall Bierlow, Sheffield at the time of his attestation so it's not surprising his record shows he was in B Company.

 

His father was a solicitor's conveyancing clerk, and early records show he had a third given name 'German', which is unsurprisingly absent from later records. He was married to Mabel, nee Riley, by the time of his attestation.

 

There's a curious bit in the DNW small print which says 'On 7 October, the Yeoman Rifles were again in action in an attack on Bayonet Trench which cost the 124th Brigade dearly. The 21st Battalion then withdrew to Mametz where, just three days later, Charles Mackenzie Woolley lost his life.'  Trench systems and their precise location are not my forte.  According to the war diary they attacked on 7 October from the Gird Trench and Gird Support  but I admit I don't know the name of their target, as the attack failed.  But I do know the 21st Bn did not withdraw to Mametz.  They remained in the line until the night of 10/11 October when they were relieved, and then entrained at Fricourt on 11 October to begin their journey to Meteren.  So that statement that Woolley lost his life at Mametz on 10 October must be wrong.

 

EDIT Although I still think that statement is wrong, the YRs were encamped at Mametz Wood in the early hours of 11 October - see Mark's post below and mine on the following page.

 

Small points from his record:  Woolley was over 6 feet tall.  He got 7 days confined to barracks at Aldershot in February 1916 for being absent from Musketry Parade (order signed by Lt R C Burton for Capt AT Watson, witnessed by Lt Sheardown - all officers who have been mentioned many times on this thread).

 

 

Edited 28 January , 2019 by Liz in Eastbourne
info re Mametz

[MBrockway]

Yes - I spotted that too and thought it was an error, but haven't had time yet to follow it all up.  So far since Andy rang me I've only been able to skim read the DNW material.  What an excellent resource for us eh?

[Liz in Eastbourne]

It is, indeed, Mark.

As you can see some of the men I already had as much or more on than DNW. 

But there are several men new to this thread who survived the war and who were therefore less likely to appear here because there was no CWGC record to start us off, and men who were not originals and so were not my main focus, although some have arrived here anyway.  Sergeant John Fitzgerald, 9201, is one of those on both counts - DNW supply a brief biography which I haven't checked, showing he enlisted with the 4th Bn KRRC in 1909 and went with them to France in December 1914.  He was in the 3rd, 21st and 18th Bns after being wounded in September 1915. His trio is for sale.

[Liz in Eastbourne]

Lt-Col GWFS Foljambe is mentioned many times on this thread but especially in several posts starting with this one on page 8, where there are two photos of him.  He was a bit of a hero to Eden for the way in which he helped the YRs recover after Flers and then Gird Ridge - 'a man I so much admired and who taught me all I knew' as he wrote about  his feelings about Foljambe's departure from the battalion. (Pedantic note:  Not 'all I know' as the DNW entry has it.  That would be saying too much, since Eden was writing as a retired Prime Minister.)

 

I was interested to find on my file a printout of an earlier page on Dix Noonan Webb's site:  a very similar entry for the same set of medals sold in 1993 for £740, roughly what was expected.

Edited 25 January , 2019 by Liz in Eastbourne

[Alan24]

On 23/01/2019 at 09:55, Liz in Eastbourne said:

 Trench systems and their precise location are not my forte. 

 

Liz, you may find this map useful...

 

All the places where the action was between 15th Sept and 10th Oct are shown...

 

TEA TRENCH

WOOD LANE

SWITCH TRENCH

FLERS TRENCH

GIRD TRENCH

 

...except Bulls Road (where Earl of Feversham was killed IIRC).

 

I believe Bulls Road was mid way between FLERS TRENCH and GIRD TRENCH.

 

Regards

 

Alan.

Edited 25 January , 2019 by Alan24

[Liz in Eastbourne]

Thanks, Alan - so as I thought, no sign of Bayonet Trench as mentioned by the account on DNW?  I did check the war diary.

 

I should explain, it's not that others haven't tried to improve my awareness of these things.  I've even been there with Forum members carrying one of those Linesman things and I  still don't remember trench locations.  Deficiency in the hippocampus area of the brain, possibly!  But I do recall all those names featuring  in the war diary and other accounts.  It's Gird, not Grid Trench btw. (No deficiency in the pedantry area.)

 

Liz

 

Edited 25 January , 2019 by Liz in Eastbourne

[Alan24]

3 minutes ago, Liz in Eastbourne said:

.  It's Gird, not Grid Trench btw. (No deficiency in the pedantry area.)

 

 

Good spot...missed that! Now corrected.

 

Currently researching 21/KRRC CSM John Brown KIA on 6th Oct and Just realised, looking at this map today, that my own GGF (as noted in his own diary) was stuck on the Flers Road on 5th Oct with his battery (125 HB) which would be approx. S.12.a central.

 

Regards

 

Alan.

[Liz in Eastbourne]

Thanks, Alan - I am afraid I completely missed your thread on CSM John Brown because it was in November when I was very much taken up with launching a WW1 centenary book unrelated to this battalion.  You spoke of being unable to search within a topic.  Certainly you can on a PC.  I'll just see if I can find anything else on this thread apart from the mention Mark directed you to from that thread.

EDIT - Of course I can't, Mark would have directed you to it if there had been anything else!  In my notes I have his birthplace, Belfast, residence, Oxford, and enlistment, Winchester, all of which you have on the other thread.  As quoted in the post Mark quoted he's mentioned by Meysey-Thompson, in notes based on his dairy, in the IWM. I didn't name him in that post but he was the CO of B Company after Flers.

 

 

Edited 25 January , 2019 by Liz in Eastbourne

[MBrockway]

2 hours ago, Liz in Eastbourne said:

EDIT - Of course I can't, Mark would have directed you to it if there had been anything else! 

 

 

Not necessarily as Mark's only human and I was also rather busy then!  Generally I do put in the legwork to turn up the cross-connections, but sometimes the time window closes and I forget to go back to it again later. 

 

Mark

 

[Alan24]

3 hours ago, MBrockway said:

 

Not necessarily as Mark's only human and I was also rather busy then!  Generally I do put in the legwork to turn up the cross-connections, but sometimes the time window closes and I forget to go back to it again later. 

 

Mark

 

Not to worry, I've picked up several pointers from this thread and the other one from a number of forum pals which has lead to quite a lot of info turning up. Just one thing...the reference in UKSDGW to his residence in Clanfield Oxfordshire has proved not to be his but his widow's from early 1919. I don't think he himself ever lived there.

 

I've almost completed the write up and will post here in due course, having learnt a lot about 21/KRRC along the way. 

 

Regards

Alan 

 

[MBrockway]

12 hours ago, Liz in Eastbourne said:

Thanks, Alan - so as I thought, no sign of Bayonet Trench as mentioned by the account on DNW?  I did check the war diary.

Liz

 

 

BAYONET TRENCH was the German trench line immediately beyond (i.e. north of) GIRD SUPPORT.  It was the First Objective of the 124 Bde attack on the 07 Oct 1916 for which 21/KRRC were notionally the Support wave and were tasked with consolidation of the First Objective (BAYONET TRENCH).

 

The attack was stopped by machine gun fire from the flanks and the front and did not reach BAYONET TRENCH.

 

The brigade's furthest point reached was at 57C.N.13.c.1.0 and held by Captain Sheardown and 'D' Coy, 21/KRRC.

 

This point is about 200yds west of the road junction marked as Point 50 on the map below. 

 

BAYONET TRENCH is named below over to the east, but in fact extended along the green '1st Stage' crayon line all the way into Square M.18 

 

This map extract is just to the north of Alan's map above.  FACTORY CORNER at the southern edge below, is visible in Alan's extract in the top left corner, as are Points 44, 99 and 39.  Both maps are I think in the 124 Bde war diary.

 

Edited 26 January , 2019 by MBrockway

[Alan24]

5 hours ago, MBrockway said:

.  Both maps are I think in the 124 Bde war diary.

Mark,

The map that I posted was from 122 Brigade's war diary who were on the left of 124 Bde, the Flers Road being the brigade boundary.

 

Regards

 

Alan 

[Liz in Eastbourne]

Mark, many thanks for clarifying the position of Bayonet Trench.  We have mentioned Sheardown's achievement several times here, but I think without naming the objective.

 

I think you agree that Mametz doesn't enter into the story, going back to DNW's account of Woolley's death?

 

Liz

[MBrockway]

13 hours ago, MBrockway said:

The brigade's furthest point reached was at 57C.N.13.c.1.0 and held by Captain Sheardown and 'D' Coy, 21/KRRC.

 

This point is about 200yds west of the road junction marked as Point 50 on the map below. 

 

I notice the 21/KRRC war diary gives the location of Capt Sheardown's 'D' Coy strongpoint as 57C.N.13.c.3.2, rather than 57C.N.13.c.1.0, which is from the 124 Bde Battle Report.

 

This reference is 150yds to the NE and lies roughly where the track heading NNW from Point 50 meets the green crayon line - i.e. Bayonet Trench.

 

The battalion war diary also mentions Sheardown's strongpoint was connected back to 57C.N.19.a.4.5 (approx Point 44) by a new communication trench dug during the night of 07-08 Oct.

Edited 26 January , 2019 by MBrockway

[MBrockway]

On 23/01/2019 at 09:55, Liz in Eastbourne said:

There's a curious bit in the DNW small print which says 'On 7 October, the Yeoman Rifles were again in action in an attack on Bayonet Trench which cost the 124th Brigade dearly. The 21st Battalion then withdrew to Mametz where, just three days later, Charles Mackenzie Woolley lost his life.'  Trench systems and their precise location are not my forte.  According to the war diary they attacked on 7 October from the Gird Trench and Gird Support  but I admit I don't know the name of their target, as the attack failed.  But I do know the 21st Bn did not withdraw to Mametz.  They remained in the line until the night of 10/11 October when they were relieved, and then entrained at Fricourt on 11 October to begin their journey to Meteren.  So that statement that Woolley lost his life at Mametz on 10 October must be wrong.

 

 

Resolving this has required a lot of chasing through the various divisional, brigade and battalion war diaries and associated orders etc.  Lots of key Orders and March Tables etc. are missing.

 

The sequence of events with respect to 21/KRRC seems to be ...

06/07 Oct - 124 Bde assembled for the attack on BAYONET TRENCH & LIME TRENCH.  32/RF & 26/RF as first wave were in new front line trenches and GIRD SUPPORT.  21/KRRC in support assembled in GIRD TRENCH.

07 Oct 13:45hrs - attack commenced.  First wave were stopped about 200yds before BAYONET TRENCH.

07 Oct 16:00hrs - 21/KRRC ordered to reinforce the first wave in positions in front of BAYONET TRENCH.  'D' Coy under Capt Sheardown succeeded in establishing a strongpoint at either 57C.N.13.c.3.2 (battalion war diary) or 57C.N.13.c.1.0 (124 Bde war diary).  This was the most forward point reached by the division.

07 Oct 17:50hrs - Brigade ordered to dig in and consolidate at their present positions. During the night 'D' Coy's strongpoint was connected back to the British lines by a newly dug communication trench

08 Oct, early evening - 21/KRRC pulled back ~200yds to GIRD SUPPORT and GIRD TRENCH

08/09 Oct, overnight - 21/KRRC pulled back a further ~400yds to FACTORY CORNER area and in Support

10/11 Oct, overnight - 21/KRRC relieved by 17/Manchesters & 2/Royal Scots Fusiliers (90 Bde, 30th Div) and moved with 124 Bde to bivouac near MAMETZ WOOD (124 Bde war diary).  All the brigade's units were there by 06:00hrs

11 Oct - entrained at FRICOURT SIDINGS and moved by rail to camp "above BECORDEL" [= Bécordel-Bécourt] (Bn war diary) or FRICOURT CAMP (Bde WD)

13 Oct, morning - draft of 305 replenishments joined 21/KRRC

13 Oct, 14:00hrs - moved by road to billets at BUIRE-SUR-L'ANCRE (and now in Corps Reserve)

16/17 Oct - 21/KRRC entrained at EDGE HILL SIDINGS and moved to AIRAINES arriving in the small hours.  This is well to the rear in the Lines of Communications area.

17 Oct - 21/KRRC marched thence by road to billets at ALLERY

 

The bivouac at Mametz Wood is not mentioned at all in the 21/KRRC war diary.  It only appears in the 124 Bde war diary, which states all the brigade's units were out of the line by 02:00hrs and all units were in bivouac near Mametz Wood by 06:00hrs.  Since they entrained at Fricourt Sidings that same day, I don't think they were at Mametz Wood for very long, probably just long enough to snatch some sleep after such a trying time in the line.

 

It looks like Woolley dying at Mametz Wood on 10 October is plausible.  I have done no digging as yet into whether there were medical facilities there and he succumbed to wounds, but there is always the possibility he was killed by shellfire - this area was certainly not safe from shelling.

 

Mark

 

 

 

[David_Underdown]

Don't know if they were still there by October, but I think there had been medical units located around what's now Flat Iron Copse Cemetery on the edge of Mametz Wood