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The HARRY LUND investigation by 'Team Harry'


sutton-in-craven
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Been meaning to ask - am I right in thinking that in Harry and Jesse, we have stumbled on the only two casualties of the Glenart Castle sinking to have been buried? As far as I can tell, the rest were lost at sea. If so, I don't know what the odds on that being the case when Andrew started this thread would have been...

At least one body, a man was washed up in Cornwall. He's buried in Penzance Cemetery:

SINNOTT, MICHAEL PETER

Initials: M P

Nationality: United Kingdom

Rank: Wireless Operator

Regiment/Service: Mercantile Marine

Unit Text: H.M.H.S. "Glenart Castle."

Age: 23

Date of Death: 26/02/1918

Additional information: Son of Julia Anne Sinnott, of Cahore, Gorey, Co. Wexford, and the late Peter Sinnott. Born at Morriscastle, Co. Wexford.

Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead

Grave/Memorial Reference: 6. RC.

Cemetery: PENZANCE CEMETERY

I did a search on 'Glenart Castle' in Geoff's Wonderful 1914-21 Search Engine and there were 95 casualties recorded. But Harry Lund wasn't actually one of them. Maybe we should also petition CWGC to add HMHS Glenart Castle to Harry's record:

LUND, HARRY

Initials: H

Nationality: United Kingdom

Rank: Private

Regiment/Service: Royal Army Medical Corps

Date of Death: 27/02/1918

Service No: 115666

Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead

Grave/Memorial Reference: E. 151.

Cemetery: PEMBROKE DOCK MILITARY CEMETERY

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Thanks, Andy - I've never worked out how to do more than a very basic search on CWGC. And I see it answers the point headgardener raised a while ago about whether the status of mercantile marine men was recognised at the time.

An interesting point. Odd that it's not already on, given that the family knew where and how he died. And presumably, so did the Army. My conversation with the CWGC representative indicated that they were "told" it was Harry's grave - Army or family information?

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Hi Andy,

My mother-in-law lives in Glusburn on the opposite side of the valley to Sutton; looking from her lounge window it is possible to see the hillside behind Sutton where the land is split into small areas--these are known as 'the acres' and are the pieces of land which were given to local men who returned from the war and could not find a job--or that is how I understand it. So basically it would seem that the committee not only debated this but actually implemented this through the local land owner/owners. These seem to be to the left of the 'EIlers' as you look across the valley, there appear to be possibly a dozen such areas, although this is only a guess!! I am sure that Andrew will be able to elaborate on this? What a wonderful idea. There may well be records at Northallerton giving more details?

Regards, Robert

Hi Robert,

I reckon you're right about that, I had never heard of 'the acres' before. I'll have to dig deeper into the minutes to see what they show regarding this.

What happened to the men (after the war) locally is something I've never looked into before. It's a whole new line of inquiry.

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As a matter of interest, the war memorial committee also deliberated in the setting up of land for local former soldiers to use for market gardening, which they would eventually own. About an acre each.

Well I lived in Sutton for over 20 years and have never heard of 'the acres'. Robert was certainly on the money with his description of these plots of land he can see from his mother-in-law's house on the hillside above Sutton. I put a post on the Sutton website asking for more information on 'the acres' and this is the response:

Andrew,

I thought that everybody with a Sutton connection knew where the Acres is, but apparently not. Try Google Earth - Enter 'The Acres, Sutton-in-Craven' and you'll be taken there. The Acres are to the right as you go up West Lane. not to the left off the Ellers. There's a roadway which used to peter out into a footpath connecting to Crag Lane. When I was a lad, during WW2 many of the Acres were still occupied by the original people who had benefitted from the gift of land. Some had erected bungalows on the land. I see that now virtually every 'Acre' has been built on.

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Well I lived in Sutton for over 20 years and have never heard of 'the acres'. Robert was certainly on the money with his description of these plots of land he can see from his mother-in-law's house on the hillside above Sutton. I put a post on the Sutton website asking for more information on 'the acres' and this is the response:

Andrew,

I thought that everybody with a Sutton connection knew where the Acres is, but apparently not. Try Google Earth - Enter 'The Acres, Sutton-in-Craven' and you'll be taken there. The Acres are to the right as you go up West Lane. not to the left off the Ellers. There's a roadway which used to peter out into a footpath connecting to Crag Lane. When I was a lad, during WW2 many of the Acres were still occupied by the original people who had benefitted from the gift of land. Some had erected bungalows on the land. I see that now virtually every 'Acre' has been built on.

Hi Andrew,

Well, 'you learn something everyday' as they say!! You'd never heard of them, I had, but got the location wrong!! At least now we all know where, when and why-- so we've both learnt something today!! Always ask a local if you need know something--I think that this has been proved on several occasions during 'Harry's' thread.

Hope you are keeping well. Speak to you soon,

Robert

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Its been fascinating watching Harry's story unfold. Well done once again to all concerned and well done Andrew for posting the original query in the first place

Regards

Chris

Hi Chris, it's probably cutting it a bit fine now, but I wondered if it would be appropriate to update/amend the CPGW page from Stephen Lund who served with the Northumberland Fusiliers to Harry Lund R.A.M.C. (ATT. R.N.D.) in time for this years Armistice Day?

If this is possible then the timing would be most appropriate, thanks :thumbsup:

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Hi Andrew, Harry's page thanks to everyone's efforts on this fantastic thread, as been corrected, ready to post online.

CPGW is due to have a huge update with something like 3yrs worth of extra information which, I'd hoped would have been available before the 11th (today)or at least that was the plan.

At the same time we're also having some structural changes to the site which as meant we've had to delay

everything for the short-term, much to my frustration.

Regards

Chris

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That's fantastic news Chris, thanks very much. I know you guys at CPGW work extremely hard and I cannot begin to imagine the logistical difficulties of updating 3 years of additional data onto the site!

Really looking forward to seeing the updates and in particular Harry's profile once the structural changes to the site have been ironed out. It's been a long while in the making as he Harry was out in the cold for 92 years!

All the best, Andrew

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Ladies & gentlemen. I am posting this message at exactly 11.00 am UK time on 11th November 2010 for very symbolic reasons pertaining to Harry Lund. It is actually 9.30 pm here in South Australia as we are 10.5 hours ahead of the UK.

However, here in Adelaide at 11.00 am this morning I paid my respects to the fallen servicemen of the Great War and in particular I was thinking about Harry Lund. I deliberately displayed the 4 images of Harry on my computer screen at work as I observed and contemplated the one minute's silence.

This brings me onto some exciting news. It gives me great pleasure to act as spokesperson on behalf of 'Go Team Harry' members to announce the latest development with regards to the Harry Lund investigation.

Sutton-in-Craven war memorial in the village park will feature in a 2.5 minute report on ITV Calender News later today on Thursday, 11th November at 6.00pm, or somewhere within the 30 minute time slot. Harry Lund's niece Mona will feature in the report.

Mona lives at Cowling and is in attendance at the Sutton war memorial along with Andy Wade at this precise moment in time for the first time ever. Mona will be laying a wreath for Harry and his fallen comrades because she never knew that her relative was listed on the Sutton memorial. This is despite living only 2 or 3 miles away in Cowling all her life!

To the best of my knowledge, Sutton-in-Craven cenotaph has never featured on TV, so this is a first and very proud moment for the village and its residents. Secondly, when I placed the initial inquiry pertaining to Harry Lund on GWF on 20th August, I NEVER in my wildest dreams imaged the Harry story would end up being broadcast on a Yorkshire TV Calender news report some 2.5 months later on Armistice Day!

This is true testimony to the hard work, determination and sheer doggedness on the part of 'Go Team Harry'; and this Calender report to be broadcast later today is the big red cherry on top of the icing on top of the cake :thumbsup:

Very well done to everyone involved, thanks to the Great War Forum for having this website available to research servicemen such as Harry Lund. I'm very happy for Mona that a missing piece of her family history has been resolved. I'm very happy that Harry has been identified as the mysterious S. Lund on the Sutton war memorial and that the memory of Harry Lund will now live on for generations to come. Enjoy the broadcast this evening folks. I'm normally a beer man but this evening I have opened a bottle of bubbly and it tastes pretty darn good! :P

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Let me be the first to congratulate everyone at "Team Harry" on this fantastic result. I'll be more than sure to tune into Calander News tonight .

All the best

Chris

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Hearty congratulations; thoroughly well deserved. Would love to see the news item. Do Andy and Louise get their faces on?

Classic thread? Absolutely!!!

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Absolutely thrilled it's finally come to fruition and many thanks to Andrew for agreeing to make the announcement at the appropriate time. Unfortunately, I was unable to get to Sutton this morning and look forward to hearing from Andy in due course as to how it went. My hospital appointment overran and thanks to a couple of young things who had no awarenss of the timing stopping the lift to go all of two floors, I didn't make it to my desk where the plan was to have the photos up but instead spent the two minutes on the stairs thinking of Harry and Jesse and all their fallen comrades. I can't get home in time to see the programme so have arranged to watch it on the office TV. I believe a link will be available before long.

Not forgotten. :poppy:

[Edit - yes we do, Diane. And Robert too. Although I'm hoping there's enough material for my specialised "rabbit caught in headlamps stare" and mumbled three word contribution to hit the cutting room floor...]

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Recorder set for Calendar tonight!

Outstanding effort all involved tremendous teamwork......Andy I prefer a glass of Port! :thumbsup:

Ady

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Hearty congratulations; thoroughly well deserved. Would love to see the news item. Do Andy and Louise get their faces on?

Classic thread? Absolutely!!!

We were both interviewed on camera last week in Keighley library but I'm hoping my clips will be on the cutting room floor. :D

I think Robert chickened out of a personal interview on camera. He was also spotted hiding behind a computer screen at some point when we were all filmed looking at the thread on the Great War Forum which should be on screen too.

All three of us were also filmed pretending to be interested in the Men of Worth display about Harry which was still up in the library from the Local History day on 16th October.

All together about an hour and a half of filming took place, if you include this morning. It will be a 2.5 minute clip tonight. Apparently in TV terms 2.5 minutes is a very long time, so I'm absolutely delighted that we've been given such exposure.

It's all Louise's fault. I had nothing to do with it. :whistle:

Autographed underpants will on sale on ebay tonight. Get 'em whilst they're still available...

Edited to add:

A clip will be available online tonight I think, and I'll try to sort a link out from this thread so that others can see it.

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Autographed underpants will on sale on ebay tonight. Get 'em whilst they're still available... very glad you didn't say 'warm'

Edited to add:

A clip will be available online tonight I think, and I'll try to sort a link out from this thread so that others can see it.

Thanks - hope we can view it down here

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Here are a couple of pictures from this morning's filming of the Armistice Day event at Sutton in Craven war memorial:

Calendar News presenter Kate Walby doing an introduction to camera:

11thNov2010-Sutton-01.jpg

Kate interviewing Mona:

11thNov2010-Sutton-03.jpg

Mona's family and local schoolchildren remember the men of Sutton in Craven:

11thNov2010-Sutton-02.jpg

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Just watched the report on Calender.

Excellent.

Well done everybody involved.

(Big advertisment for the GWF as you could see the website on the screens on the computers.)

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I couldn't see myself, just some fat bloke spouting on about researching war memorials and stuff... :whistle:

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Yeah, they've Photoshopped some fat middle-aged bird in where I was standing .

Are you doing the honours with the link, Andy? It's online.

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I couldn't see myself, just some fat bloke spouting on about researching war memorials and stuff... :whistle:

So what was Robert's excuse!

Well done Andy for adding the link so quickly and thanks for posting the pictures of Kate, Mona and the school children in attendance at the memorial. A proud day for everyone involved including the residents of Sutton-in-Craven.

Because I'm overseas, I am unable to open the link because the video is only available to be viewed within the UK.

I've just tried using a proxy server to bypass the viewing restrictions, but with no success.

Has anyone else from overseas had any luck viewing this link?

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Congratulations to everyone involved in this thread, what an amazing conclusion (although I'm sure you will carry on digging). I have followed this thread since the begining of your epic trail of postings, a story like this is what makes this forum so addictive.

Mandy

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