1st July 1916 Casualty

[Roy Evans]

I'm not a collector but have been following a trio to a 1st July 1916 casualty on ebay. Pte 16780 McInnes of the 11th Royal Scots medals went for £201. I know that 01/07/1916 casualties attract a premium but this guy was said to have died in hospital on that day and so presumably must have been wounded before then. Am I out of touch?

Roy

[PhilB]

11 R Scots were in Corps Reserve on 1/7/16 and McInnes` place of burial indicates, as you say, a previous wounding. That makes him not a casualty of the 1/7/16 battle and the price reflects that.

[Roy Evans]

I must be out of touch! I assumed that £200 was the going price for a KiA 01/07/1916 man.

Roy

[Andrew Hesketh]

Out of interest, what would be expected for a trio, with plaque and photo, for a 1st July 1916 casualty? I have the above for my Great Uncle (see signature). There's no chance of me ever selling them by the way. I'm just interested.

[Nigel Marshall]

I recently followed a trio on ebay. The man was from a fighting battalion for July 1st 1916 and when I lost touch with the bidding it was up at about £485 with 2 or 3 days still to run.

I've heard that a 01/07/1916 casualty trio and plaque broke the £1000 mark but I didn't actually see it.

Cheers,

Nigel

[Roy Evans]

I recently followed a trio on ebay. The man was from a fighting battalion for July 1st 1916 and when I lost touch with the bidding it was up at about £485 with 2 or 3 days still to run.

I've heard that a 01/07/1916 casualty trio and plaque broke the £1000 mark but I didn't actually see it.

Cheers,

Nigel

'ell's teef, I am out of touch. I'll get me coat.

Roy

[Mick D]

I don't buy medals but I often look at them on e-bay and other on line sites. What I believe I have seen is not the seller's price reflecting what they are worth, but sometimes what he can hype it up to be, and charge a ransome that someone will buy it at.

Mick

[Nulli Secundus]

I received Dixon's Gazette for Autumn 2010 yesterday. They are (in my opinion) the best medal dealers in the UK.

Prices are reasonable, the selection is good and they are excellent to do business with. No I don't work for them!

Anyway they have listed in the this edition:

1914-15 Star, British War Medal & Victory Medal (complete Trio)

Private R Robinson Royal Irish Rifles served with the 12th Battalion.

Killed In Action on 1st July 1916 (first day of the battle of the Somme)

Priced at £875

So if the Memorial Plaque were included I think a price of £1,000 - £1,100 would be about right.

I do collect First World War medals but I will NEVER buy any to recipients who were KIA.

[Roy Evans]

On second thoughts, these prices seem more than reasonable, I wouldn't let my Grandfather's 'pair' go for far more that sort of money.

Roy

[David B]

I suppose the extra value comes from the fact that only 19000 odd medal groups come with the accolade KIA on 1 July 16, and no doubt, not all of them are on the market, so the rarety factor comes

into it. To me rather sad though.

David

[auchonvillerssomme]

The price is whatever the underbidder drives it up to and the final bidder wants to pay. If anyone is selling Somme 1st July 1916 KIA trio's for 200 quid I will take all of them off your hands for that and more.

Mick

[priv]

About 4 or 5 years ago - when I was returning to medal collecting and research after a few years off, I recall that a trio and plaque to a man from the 9th Devons went for well in excess of £ 2,000. Obviously the history of the Devons on that day is well documented and extremely poignant, but I would say that given the available histories and research available and the notoriety of some of the actions that took place on that day what you would have to pay to obtain a trio and plaque or even a pair on its own would vary greatly.

priv

[auchonvillerssomme]

It did go over that because I was the underbidder and took my eye of the ball at........ But that particular officer buried in Devonshire Trench!

[trenchtrotter]

A trio for a 1/7/16 casualty from a dealer is about £850 to £900 as stated. £1,000 plus with plaque.

I have three groups to 1/7/16 casualties but the last I bought 11 years ago for £195.......and then it was a hefty whack but glad I bought it now and it is a Lonsdale Battalion man.

Cant understand why someone wont EVER buy a casualty. The medals to non casualties may also hold untold truths and suffering but in my mind the medal is a way of remembering the sacrifice and preserving the memory even if the recipient never actually saw or wore the decorations!

Regards

TT

[auchonvillerssomme]

I nearly totally agree TT, but one of my favourite trios is to a survivor, a Pte in 8th KOYLI. I know nothing about the man and would dearly love to have heard his story.

Mick

[DavoT]

I don't have any complete 1/7/16 groups but have a VM (MID) to a CSM and a 14/15 Star to a private from different regiments involved at Gommecourt area. Out of interest, what would these singles be worth? TIA.

David

[auchonvillerssomme]

Speaking for myself, it would depend on where they were buried, burials will go for more than those on memorials. I think that even a Victory on its own to a CSM with a verified MID and buried in a well known Somme cemetery you could be looking at starting over 150 quid and sit and watch where it ends. The problem with valuing is the variables, buried or on memorial, officer or O/R (although theres not much difference in price for Ptes to Sgt's)where buried? smaller cemeteries such as the Redan Ridge or Hawthorn Ridge cemeteries certainly go for a premium.

[PhilB]

That`s new to me - rating burials more than commems. I personally don`t make any distinction - do others?

[squirrel]

I would not describe myself as a collector and it baffles me as to the varying criteria that are used for valuing medals, with the exception of condition, which I can understand. I wonder what the men they were awarded to would have thought of it?

[DavoT]

Speaking for myself, it would depend on where they were buried, burials will go for more than those on memorials. I think that even a Victory on its own to a CSM with a verified MID and buried in a well known Somme cemetery you could be looking at starting over 150 quid and sit and watch where it ends. The problem with valuing is the variables, buried or on memorial, officer or O/R (although theres not much difference in price for Ptes to Sgt's)where buried? smaller cemeteries such as the Redan Ridge or Hawthorn Ridge cemeteries certainly go for a premium.

The CSM is commemorated on the Thiepval Memorial and my private is buried in Gommecourt British Cemetery No2, Hebuterne. Not that it matters to me. I collect to preserve their memory & service whether a casualty or not.

David

[auchonvillerssomme]

That`s new to me - rating burials more than commems. I personally don`t make any distinction - do others?

Phil I'm not sure what you mean when you say you don't make the distinction, as a buyer you would have to, if you are a seller pass me your lists quickly. For example: you put on medals to the same Regiment and Bn killed on 1st July, one buried in Beaumont Hamel Cemetery or Redan Ridge No1 2 or 3 and one on Thiepval and the difference will be marked.

I have a continuous search and saved searches on ebay for certain cemeteries and I still check most days, but theres still usually someone who beats me to it.

Mick

[auchonvillerssomme]

The CSM is commemorated on the Thiepval Memorial and my private is buried in Gommecourt British Cemetery No2, Hebuterne. Not that it matters to me. I collect to preserve their memory & service whether a casualty or not.

David

David, the value should matter, if only for insurance purposes. I might sometimes come over as a bit mercenary when it comes to the issue of value, but there are a hell of a lot of people out there that still underestimate the worth of these items both in historical and cash terms.

I have a bit of a thing about people selling their familly history but if they do then they should get close to the market value. I have even seen a thread on here about someone who worked as vounteer in a charity shop who took home militaria items they knew to be of value and tried to make it out that they got a bargain.

By the way if the CSM is George Lee KOYLI, I might have some info (although that really would be a miracle).

Mick

[PhilB]

Phil I'm not sure what you mean when you say you don't make the distinction, Mick

I mean I wasn`t aware that the monetary distinction existed. From my limited knowledge of 1/7/16 casualties, I`d guess about 20%-30% have known graves - do your figures support that?

[DavoT]

David, the value should matter, if only for insurance purposes. I might sometimes come over as a bit mercenary when it comes to the issue of value, but there are a hell of a lot of people out there that still underestimate the worth of these items both in historical and cash terms.

I have a bit of a thing about people selling their family history

By the way if the CSM is George Lee KOYLI, I might have some info (although that really would be a miracle).

Mick

Hi Mick,

agree with your point about insurance (most under insure in general), and yes people do underestimate historical and monetary value. I also agree about keeping it in the family and finally, the CSM is Herbert Masson of Queen's Westminsters.

David

[squirrel]

Perhpas veering off the topic a little.............but, how can I tell the value of what medals I have for insurance purposes?