East Lancashire Division RFA (T)

[brianmorris547]

A link with the Bolton Artillery and Salisbury Plain. I do not know what guns the BA were equipped with in 1909.

From the Pension Record of 127 Sgt Frank Brockbank (Ancestry WO 364), who enlisted into 3 ELB in 1908. It shows the Annual Camp 1909 was at Salisbury Plains.

Sgt Brockbank went to Egypt in September 1914 but in 1916 was dismissed from the Service under KR 392 para X1, having been imprisoned with hard labour for Misconduct Abroad (Egypt).

Brian

[MaxD]

So perhaps the 20th Battery photo is indeed the Plain in 1909, the Bolton Artillery having detrained at Amesbury Station (the site is 100 yards from where I sit) late on 5 June and camped at West Down (memories memories) enjoying fine warm weather (Bolton Evening New 8 Jun 1909).

 

 

Max

 

 

 

[brianmorris547]

22 hours ago, MaxD said:

So perhaps the 20th Battery photo is indeed the Plain in 1909, the Bolton Artillery having detrained at Amesbury Station (the site is 100 yards from where I sit) late on 5 June and camped at West Down (memories memories) enjoying fine warm weather (Bolton Evening New 8 Jun 1909).

 

 

Max

Max

I could not get the Bolton Evening News in the British Newspaper Library with my Lancashire Libraries card and thought that it was not available so I did not check when I got FMP. Thanks to your pointer I have found that the BEN is available on FMP so I have just upgraded. I will search the periods of the camps to see if I can find the photo. (I have also got a lot of family research to do and with no prospect of the History Centre in Bolton Library opening this will keep me going through the winter  - and beyond). Thanks for the tip.

Brian

 

[MaxD]

4 minutes ago, brianmorris547 said:

this will keep me going through the winter  - and beyond).

Just in time for lock down too - good luck.

 

Max

[brianmorris547]

Max

I've just been reading the BEN for the period of the Annual Camp 1909. They did indeed detrain at Amesbury and there were reports in the BEN on a daily basis. The reports came from North Camp no 4, West Down. On Saturday and Sunday 5th and 6th June storms caused a stampede of the East Lancs Division's horses and a large number ran through Salisbury, 18 miles away. Rain ruined the first week but the final exercise involved the Artillery fording a river at Tighelden Village. No pictures yet but all intersting stuff. Many of the Bolton Artillery Officers who went to Egypt in 1914 are mentioned. 

Brian

[Garwood]

On 02/11/2020 at 08:38, brianmorris547 said:

This is the Statement of Services of 669 Dvr John Slater of Bolton, who enlisted into 3 ELB in January 1911. He attended the Annual Camps at Tatton Park and Trawsfynnyd from 30/06/1912 to 14/07/1912 and Dolphinholme ? from 20/08/1911 to 03/09/1911. He went to Egypt in September 1914 and came home in 1916 Time Expired.

His Pension Record is on Ancestry under WO 364 Filmstrip SLA 7736/13429. I have seen this record before because I remember reading that his character was described as Indifferent. I had noticed what I read as Dolphinholme (but I may be wrong) because it is about five miles south east of Lancaster situated in the hills. I can not find any references to a firing range ever being there. 

Brian

So the photo of `going out firing` could be the Dolphinholm/Wyresdale moors ? Looks similar vegetation to there.

[MaxD]

3 hours ago, brianmorris547 said:

They did indeed detrain at Amesbury and there were reports in the BEN on a daily basis.

Interesting to note the part the Territorial Artillery (and presumably other lesser mortals) of the time played in the life of the towns they came from with a reporter "embedded" for camp and many reports through camp and the training year.  Despite being the local rag for an area that now has half the army stationed in it, the Sal****** Jo***** manages one quarter of a page each week and usually spells the unit name incorrectly (not a modern phenomenon , the village is Figheldean).

 

Max

[Mike HB]

All

 

It's good to know I'm not alone in trying to find answers to the smallest of details in events over a century ago! I am still hoping for further info on the photo from the holder, but am leaning to the 1909 Salisbury Plain suggestion, rather than the 1915/16 date (although I have picked up from somewhere that 332nd RFA were at Larkhill in February 1917, just before 66 Div was reviewed by the King before embarking for France). Although my gf would not have been in the 3 East Lancs in 1909, when he joined as a 17 year old the following April, he might well have been given or picked up the card as an example of a summer camp to tempt him into signing up. Also, of course, in 1915 it would have been 2/3 East Lancs RFA, and not 3rd East Lancs, assuming the photographer got the caption right.

 

Mike

[brianmorris547]

Mike

The reference to Larkhill is in the WD of 332 Brigade RFA. WO 95 3128/3. It can be found on Ancestry under Various (Divisional Troops) - 66 Div - Piece 3128. It only has two pages and records that A Bty went to 298 Brigade. 

It seems that the 1909 Camp was to test the mobility of the East Lancs Division. The reports show that the Artillery were using untrained horses. Noted on lookers were John French and Ian Hamilton and the first exercise was a re run of the Battle of Yalu (Russo - Japanese War - where I believe Ian Hamilton was an Official British Observer). 

Garwood

It could well be Dolphinholme. Photographs were not normally in the Bolton Evening News but in the weekly Bolton Journal and also the Bolton Chronicle. I will check the BEN for each year.

Brian

 

[Garwood]

I`ve found a possible match for the photo on a hill road on Wyresdale Moors using Google Earth but as the Bronaber comparison pictures show,much can have changed even in a fairly natural landscape over 100+ years.

[brianmorris547]

1 hour ago, Garwood said:

I`ve found a possible match for the photo on a hill road on Wyresdale Moors using Google Earth but as the Bronaber comparison pictures show,much can have changed even in a fairly natural landscape over 100+ years.

Garwood

I'm familiar with the area being reasonably close and have done lots of walking there, perhaps you could give me some co ordinates or the OS map ref please. I've had my maps of the area out as well. As for the Bolton Evening News on FMP I've just found out that there are few copies available after 1909 (unless I am searching incorrectly) and none for 1914 - 1919. I was not able to look and see what was available before I leapt with my upgrade money and I have expressed my displeasure to FMP. Caveat emptor. Back to Plan A which is to wait for Bolton Library to open.

Brian

[brianmorris547]

Another East Lancs Div Gunner on Lives of the First World War (Image courtesy of IWM - two other photographs are mentioned).

710640 Dvr Thomas Mayoh. 

No 1914-15 Star so thought to be Bolton Artillery Reserve Brigades. The Bolton Chronicle December 1915 printed the Bolton Lads Club Roll of Honour. The names included Shoeing Smith T Mayoh under 3 East Lancs RFA.  

Brian

Edited 11 December , 2020 by brianmorris547
typo

[Mike HB]

Happy New Year all!

 

RE the camps noted above, trawling through various information it seems that Trawsfynnyd was the only firing range in Wales, and one of few in England and Wales (Lark Hill, West Down and Okehampton were the other ones mentioned, which others may be more familiar with than me). The Government admitted in June 1910 that there was a shortage of rifle ranges for musketry training, so I'm sure there was an equal lack of artillery ranges given the even larger amounts of land needed. So I suspect that Dolphinholme was a camp, but not a firing range. Ditto Tatton Park (there's nothing in Tatton Park history to indicate a connection with the TF or Army, so the camp couldn't have been a major or regular event), so perhaps the Tatton Park/Trawsfynnyd camp in 1912 was a week of drill followed by a week of firing?

 

A separate question, Brian, on the camps listed in the 3 November post, can you decipher the second camp, in 1910? Camp Base? Camp Aire? I've not been able to track it down anywhere.

 

A final question, on what basis were men recruited into the pre-war artillery, TF or regular? Was it some sort of aptitude, what the person wanted to do, or was it just random selection?

 

Mike

 

 

[brianmorris547]

Mike

It could be Camp Base but more likely Camp Bare (Morecambe). The recruits were the newly formed TF (See link re Haldane Reforms). 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haldane_Reforms

Brian

EDIT

The history of Poulton, Bare and Torrisholme records that "At Bare there is a camping ground used throughout the summer by Territorial Artillery" .

Edited 1 January , 2021 by brianmorris547

[brianmorris547]

1923 / 710961 Dvr Richard Farnworth. (Courtesy IWM LOFWW and FMP). 

Named in the Bolton Evening News 06/05/1915 "Rally to the Flag". The Weekly Bolton Journal 07/05/1915 reported that sixty men had enlisted into the 3rd East Lancashire RFA (Reserve Brigades of the Bolton Artillery) at the Town Hall during the week. Two did not want their names published. 

Richard Farnworth is shown as 12 Martin St, Edgworth.

Brian 

Edited 25 January , 2021 by brianmorris547
additional info

[brianmorris547]

Another piece in the jigsaw.

3/3 East Lancs RFA (T) became D/ 2 Res Brigade RFA in early 1917. I had always wondered.

3/3 were in Shropshire, possibly Bettisfield Park, in 1916 according to the Bolton papers.

Source WO 364 John Hammond RFA 711358. (TNA - Ancestry)

John of 34 Rochdale Lane, Heywood was one of a large number of men to enlist into the Bolton Artillery at Bolton Town Hall on 12/10/1915.

[David Porter]

Brian,

 

Yes, it was Bettisfield Park, the home of No. 2 (TF) Artillery Training School (later Reserve Brigade (TF)).

Interesting that the move is dated January 1, 1917 as I thought it was earlier. The combined 3rd lines formed Training batteries.

 

Training batteries were redesignated under ACI 1588 of 1916 on October 1, 1916 as follows:
Regular Training Battery became “A” Bty., No. 2 Reserve Brigade (TF)
West Lancs. Training Battery became “B” Bty., No. 2 Reserve Brigade (TF)
Welsh Training Battery became “C” Bty., No. 2 Reserve Brigade (TF)
East Lancs. Training Battery became “D” Bty., No. 2 Reserve Brigade (TF)
 

[brianmorris547]

Thank you David

Brian

[brianmorris547]

I was in Bolton Library History Centre yesterday and got a picture of Philip Connor, subject of this thread on C/298 Bde RFA 

https://www.greatwarforum.org/topic/286559-royal-field-artillery-c-bty-298th-bde/?tab=comments#comment-3009066

I also got the picture of Lt Col C E Walker, OC 3 East Lancashire Brigade RFA (T) from the Bolton Journal August 1914. He served in Egypt, Gallipoli and on the Western Front.

 

[brianmorris547]

I am researching men of the Bolton Artillery who were awarded gallantry medals in France and Flanders from 1917 to 1919. I have most of them from the Bolton newspapers but wish to show them in the order in which they appear in the WDs and to give the reasons for the awards as shown in the papers. Many were serving in 211 Brigade RFA of 42 Div which arrived in France from Egypt in March 1917, others were serving in other RFA Units and some had been transferred to the RE Signals Co of 42 Div. 

The first is 710176 Gnr Robert Wilcock. He is named in the WD of 211 Brigade RFA 21/06/1917. Number and name wrongly given as 710716 R Wilcox B/211. "For gallantry and devotion to duty". The WD records that on 12/06/1917 B/211 had one k in a and eight wounded. There are no previous actions which seem to fit the facts. He is also named in the WD of the 42 Div A&QMG for June 1917 under Honours and Rewards. LG 30209.

The Bolton Journal 06/07/1917 pictured him and reported that he had been awarded the MM for removing the dial sight from a gun and assisting a wounded man, although wounded himself.

He was  admitted to Catterick hospital in 1918 for gas poisoning and flu and was discharged with a SWB under para 392 on 02/03/1919. He died in 1920 and is buried in Bolton.

I will attach his picture when I next go to Bolton Library.

Brian

 

 

[brianmorris547]

In the September 1917 WD of 42 Div A&QMG six MMs from 42 Div Sigs Co are named in Routine Orders under Honours and Rewards. (Two more are named at the end of the list). One is 443927 Pnr Isaac Mills. The six are also named in Appendix D to the September 1917 WD of 42 Div Sigs Co RE and the LG 30424. 

Isaac Mills was pictured in the Bolton papers in October 1917. It was reported that he had been mobilized with the Bolton Artillery and had gone to Egypt in September 1914. He had transferred to the RE in 1917 upon arrival of 211 Brigade RFA in France. Reporting on his award he had remained at his post though suffering from shell shock. His MM was presented by the Mayor of Bolton on 13/09/1918 and the Bolton Journal 20/09/1918 under "Bolton Heroes Honoured" reported that the MM was awarded for volunteering to establish telephone communications under very heavy enemy shell fire. 

WO 363 Mil 136829/176353.

 

[brianmorris547]

Two more MMs for 42 Div Sigs Co RE in the October 1917 WD of 42 Div A&QMG (Honours and Rewards) and named in the LG 30431. 

443932 Pnr H Bellamy and 443926 (should be 443928) Pnr J Hodgin.

Both men enlisted into the Bolton Artillery Reserve Brigades in Bolton in 1915. The Bolton Evening News "Rally to the Flag" 18/05/1915 names Hodgin, John, 219 Rishton Lane Bolton and the BEN RTF 26/05/1915 names Bellamy, Harry, 40 Halstead St, Bolton and his brother Bellamy, Fred.

Harry Bellamy WO 363 - Ancestry Bel 66237/75399 and John Hodgin WO 363 - Ancestry Hod 43130/71059.

Both men went out to Egypt in 1916, Harry in January and John in March and joined 211 Bde RFA and both were transferred to the RE 42 Div Sigs Co in 1917 in France.

Harry was pictured in the Bolton Journal 30/11/1917 as being awarded the MM. The Bolton Journal of 18/10/1918 reported that he had been awarded the MM on 20/09/1917 at Ypres. His duty was to send important messages from the Infantry to the Artillery by lamp, when all other means of communication were down, for 24 hours under continuous bombardment.

There is no report about John Hodgin in the 1917 papers but he was presented with his MM by the Mayor on 21/03/1918. The Bolton Journal of 22/03/1918 records that he was awarded the MM on 20/09/1917 for keeping the communications in order during the battle of the Menin Rd, during which time he was exposed to heavy shell fire. No photograph of him unfortunately.

 

[brianmorris547]

Harry Bellamy is also mentioned in the WD for 211 Brigade RFA 18/10/1917 with John Hodgin (number correct but name shown as Wilkinson). Also mentioned on 18/10 awarded the MM are five Gunners who are not shown in the WD of 42 Div A&QMG until November 1917 but are also named in the LG 30431. More on these in my next post.

The 211 Brigade WD 30/10/1917 records the award of the MM to 710279 Gnr M Keighley. He is also named in the October WD of 42 Div A&QMG under Honours and Rewards and LG 30498. The Bolton Journal 28/12/1917 pictured him and reported that he had been awarded the MM. He was presented with his medal by the Mayor of Bolton in 1918. The Bolton Journal 28/06/1918 reported that Mornington Keighley of 39 John St had enlisted into the Bolton Artillery in 1913 and had served with that Unit in Egypt and Gallipoli. He was awarded the MM on 16/10/1917 for conspicuous bravery at Nieuport. He noticed a motor wagon on which stood an Anti Aircraft gun on fire and a nearby ammunition dump. Without hesitation and at the risk of his own life he extinguished the fire. 

 

[brianmorris547]

The five MMs named in the 211 Brigade WD 18/10/1917 and the November 1917 WD of the 42 Div A&QMG include 710247 Bdr Waddington R and 705470 Gnr R Hargreaves (MM and Bar). The MM for Robert Hargreaves is in the LG 30424 and the Bar is in the LG 30498. He is also named in the WD of 42 Div A&QMG February 1918 under MMs so this must be the Bar. The MM for Richard Waddington is also in the LG 30498. The LGs show that R Hargreaves was from Manchester and R Waddington was from Bolton. 

A Dvr Robert Hargreaves is named in the Bolton Journal 10/03/1915 as being rescued from the Suez Canal by Bdr J Brown after getting into difficulties while swimming. The Bolton Journal 20/10/1916 also names a Gnr R Hargreaves as a member of C Bty (Bolton Artillery) Football Team in Egypt. The only R Hargreaves I can find on the SMARs is 1386 1914-15 Star 20/09/1914 (3) later 705470. He was probably from 2 East Lancs Brigade who made up the numbers of 1 ELB and 3 ELB before those Brigades left for Egypt. 1386 Sig Hargreaves R is named on this casualty list (in WO 363 Herbert Charles Dunn Ancestry Dun 47543). 405 Sgt Parker H is also named. He is mentioned in the Bolton papers in 1915 and 1916 and served in Gallipoli. His home address was 30 Victor St. The 1911 Census shows Harry Parker at that address but I can find no trace on SMARS, MRICs, SWB or RSE and no deaths in Bolton. 2065 Sdlr J Ellison may be 1/3 East Lancs. James Ellison 2065/706059 has papers in WO 364 (Ell 31219). He enlisted in Manchester into 2 ELB and went out to Egypt in March 1916.

The Waddington family of Penn St, father Walter (ASC) and four sons Harry (ASC) Jack (9 LNL) Jess (RAMC in the Dardanelles) and Dick (RFA in Gallipoli) were pictured in the Bolton Journal 13/08/1915. R Waddington is also named in the C Bty Football Team. There does not seem to be a report of his MM in the 1917 papers nor a report of his death (K in a 28/09/1917).  

EDIT: H 7391 posted on Casualty Lists p 61.

 

[brianmorris547]

On 21/10/2020 I posted a picture from Lives of the First World War on this thread. It was 710313 Harry Greenwood wearing his MM. He is named in the WD of 211 Bde RFA 16/11/1917 (as Dvr E Greenwood) along with another MM 710087 Dvr J Baines. Both are shown as B/211 and they are named in the November 1917 WD of 42 Div A&QMG Routine Orders. They are in the LG 30507 and both are shown as from Bolton. 

Harry, of 188 Morris Green Lane, was pictured in the Bolton Journal 30/11/1917 as having been awarded the MM and mentioned again on 06/09/1918 after he had been presented with his Medal in Bolton. He had extinguished a fire in an ammunition dump.

No reports appear in the Bolton papers for James Baines.