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Remembered Today:

Charles Ingram


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I've just received the death certificate for one of the relatives I've been researching, Charles Ingram. He was an old soldier who re-enlisted in October 1914 and spent 2 years and a bit with various reserve battalions in England before being assigned to the 6th Infantry Labour Coy of the Northamptonshire Regiment, which later became 144 Coy, Labour Corps. He went with his unit to France in late March 1917 and served with them until being taken ill with bronchitis in June and being evacuated back to England a few days later. He ended up in Exeter, and was in at least two military hospitals in the area before being discharged in August (the discharge was approved on 28 August and confirmed on 19 September). His death certificate confirms that his death on 27 May 1918 was due to chronic bronchitis.

Unfortunately his medical records aren't complete, so I don't have the report of the medical board which discharged him, and there's nothing that directly says that his illness was caused/aggravated by his service. However, despite the fact that he was in his 60s and obviously regarded as unfit to be a fighting soldier, the sheet that records his admission to the hospitals in England after his spell in France only records his admissions in July 1917, and presumably if he'd been admitted to hospital at any time between October 1914 and March 1917, it would have been recorded on the same sheet. As there are no recorded spells in hospitals in England before July 1917, I think it's fair to think he was not suffering from Bronchitis before his spell in France.

His records can be found via these ancestry links (I'm reluctant to post selected images here in case I miss something important):

Service Records

Pension Records

What survives of his medical records are in the Pension Records after his original attestation papers from 1873.

All the records I've found about him have age discrepancies but the death certificate (which gives his age as 64) is definitely for the same chap as the army papers, as evidenced by his wife's name and the address being the same. Given his birthplace (Colchester) there's only one entry in the BMD index which could be him, a Charles Walter Ingram born in the March quarter of 1855, which would make him 63 when he died, but right now that's immaterial.

The question is, is the limited evidence I have enough to submit him as a non-comm, or does the fact that the report of the medical board hasn't survived mean that the avenue is closed?

Sorry for waffling, I've probably given far more info than necessary, and if I've missed anything out that's relevant I apologise.

Cheers,

Carole.

P.S. Just remembered I forgot to include his service numbers - they are 35522 for the Northants Labour Coy, and 86023 for the Labour Corps, just thought I'd better include them for the record.

Edited by Carole89
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Carole,

When you looked at the Pensions record, did you go backwards from the "first" page?

Image No. 4481 is the one you want.

Report of Medical Board 29-8-17

Cause of discharge: 1) Chronic Bronchitis 2) Old Age

Origin: June 1917 Belgium

Not the result of, but aggravated by active service

Permanent Prevents 1/4

Phil

PS Image 4478 looks like it is the first one for his record

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Carole,

When you looked at the Pensions record, did you go backwards from the "first" page?

Image No. 4481 is the one you want.

Report of Medical Board 29-8-17

Cause of discharge: 1) Chronic Bronchitis 2) Old Age

Origin: June 1917 Belgium

Not the result of, but aggravated by active service

Permanent Prevents 1/4

Phil

PS Image 4478 looks like it is the first one for his record

Phil, thank you so much! I don't know why I didn't think to check... I'm off to see for myself

Cheers,

Carole.

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David_Underdown

That would seem to clinch the case, the "aggravated by active service" should do it.

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Carole

have you managed to find his grave yet. I may be able to help.

Chris

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Chris,

Unfortunately I'm at the wrong end of the country, and I don't really know where to start with council departments etc... He lived in Warley/Great Warley (I'm not quite sure where one starts and the other ends) near Brentwood, which at the time was in the Hornchurch subdistrict of the Romford district according to his death certificate. My best guess after a bit of googling is that he would have been buried in Lorne Road Cemetery - named Great Warley (Christ Church) Cemetery by the CWGC - which was the C of E cemetery for the area at the time - his service papers confirm he was CofE, despite having an Irish-born wife - and very close to where he lived. Of course, that's only the place that seems most likely, and it's only an educated guess right now.

I can scan the death cert and email the file to you if that would help.

Cheers,

Carole.

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Hello Carole and Chris,

I can look at the microfiche of the Christ Church Warley burial records for you. It might be possible today.

Regards

CGM

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Hi CGM,

Many thanks for your kind offer. Obviously there's no rush, though, if it isn't possible today - after 92 years a few days/weeks isn't going to make any difference.

Cheers,

Carole.

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Right in that case if CGM's search is negative I will give the council a go

Chris

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Thank you for finding that out CGM.

Cheers,

Carole.

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Carole

Just to let you know I started a grave search with Brentwood Council

Chris

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Many thanks Chris.

Cheers,

Carole.

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Below is the grave details that I received today from Bob Glynde of Brentwood Borough Council. A very big public thank you to Bob for his help on this & another IFCP case

I can confirm that Charles Ingram is buried in Lorne Road cemetery in grave B80. Our records show that he was interred on 1st June 1918 and he lived in 2 Albert Cottages, Woodman Road, Warley, Brentwood. I have attached a photocopy of the entry. Charles shares this common grave with Bridget Ingram interred 14 April 1925 aged 66, probably his wife, and Mary Amy Gibbons interred 21st December 1882 aged 72, relationship unknown.

Carole

Would be grateful if you could PM me your e mail address as would like to pass this all on to you. Also will you be submitting the case yourself or would you like IFCP to do it for you with yourself as the submitting volunteer.

Chris

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Chris,

Many thanks, have PM'ed you.

Cheers,

Carole.

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  • 3 weeks later...

The site of Charles Ingram's unmarked grave:

th_DSCF0817.jpg

It's next to the brown gravestone, (to the right of it). The brown gravestone inscription reads

In affectionate remembrance of

Jane Carpenter

the beloved wife of

Reuben Carpenter

Staff Armourer Sergeant

1st Manchester Regiment

who died January 13 ? th 1883

Click on the thumbnail for a larger version, then hover over the larger photo to be offered the option to zoom in.

CGM

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The Lorne Road Cemetery accepted it's last new grave in 1929 and it's now a designated nature conservation area. This means the vegetation is being allowed to take over - except in the case of the CWGC graves, which are kept clear. Paths to each one were mown through the grass just a day or so after I took this photograph.

CGM

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  • 3 years later...

INGRAM, CHARLES Rank: Private Service No: 86023 Date of Death: 27/05/1918 Age: 64 Regiment/Service: Labour Corps 6th Bn. Grave Reference B. 80. Cemetery GREAT WARLEY (LORNE ROAD) CEMETERY Additional Information:

Husband of Bridget Ingram, of Brentwood, Essex.

N.B.

Recent research has shown that Private Ingram is buried here. The Commission is in the process of producing a headstone to mark his grave.

Commemoration Moved From UK BOR

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  • 10 months later...

Charles Ingram is my great- great Grandfather.

Bridget was definitely his wife.

One of their sons - William - died in 1914 WW1 aged 26.

My great-grandfather Peter, William's brother, fought in WW1 and WW2 and survived both.

Unlike William, both Peter and Charles were professional soldiers.

My grandfather was born in August 1914 at Bodmin Barracks.

Interestingly, he was named William Charles.

I have been researching my family history and was delighted to discover this information!

My husband and I are planning a trip to Essex for more research early 2015.

Does anyone know if the gravestone mentioned has been produced yet?

Thank you

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Welcome to the forum !!

The CWGC should approach the local council (Brentwood) before undertaking any work in the cemetery and I have left a message with the staff there, asking them to contact me when they are contacted by the CWGC about Charles' grave. (Thinking about it I should probably remind them of my request - staff may have changed etc.)

It is also possible to contact the CWGC directly and ask if a date has been decided. However the CWGC enquiries team has been inundated with requests for many months now, because of the greatly increased interest due to the 1914 / 2014 anniversary. Replies are taking weeks.

CGM

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A bit off the subject, but I have a death plaque in the name of John Edward INGRAM, in the event that he may be a relative??

Regards

Bob R.

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