Why KOSBs instead of local regiment?

[Camberwick]

My new research is 130209, Pte Joseph Carl, who joined the KOSBs at Blackley in Lancs in 1915, and my question is why would a lad join the KOSBs instead of, say, The Manchesters or the East Lancs Regt, which were the local units.

So far I haven't found his birthdate or place of birth so perhaps he hailed from Scotland and felt his allegiance lay there. Incidently he went to Galipolli on the 25 April 1915 and died next day.

[eltoro1960]

Hi according to the Scottish National War Memorial, he was born in Salford. Given that he joined the 1st KOSB, he may have been a pre war soldier and was called up as a reservist. Or it could have been pure and simple that he just fancied joining the KOSB.

John

[kenf48]

See this Insight on the LLT

http://www.1914-1918.net/notlocal.html

According to the same source the 1st Bn returned from India and were quartered in Rugby, still a bit of a stretch at around 130 miles but if the Battalion was being built up to strength for deployment overseas he could well have been posted there, possibly after basic training at a local depot. Following on from the previous post his dob would suggest whether or not he was in the Reserves.

It's true that in 1915 there was still some element of choice. By 1916 and conscription that had gone completely but even in 1915 I suspect the Army sent their recruits where they were most needed. I have a relative from the Midlands also enlisting in 1915, he was in the Argylls, he's also on the Scottish War Memorial but afaik never went further North than Leicester!

One well known example is Harry Patch, who was mobilised in 1917 and recalled in his biography that after basic training " I had a chum with me from the same village, (in Somerset) I went to the Duke of Cornwall's and he went to a regiment going to Egypt. We never met again."

Ken

[Guest]

There is a Joseph Carl born May 28th 1877 33 Braid St Glasgow Son of Arthur Carl and Mary McDonald os McDonnell?

Mike

Edit Scotland's People

[Camberwick]

Gentlemen, thank you for your inputs, they have given me food for thought. I will investigate his roots in Salford and possibly the KOSBs museum archives, (if they have them).

If ever a chap picked the wrong unit to join it must have been Joseph Carl.

[kenf48]

CWGC gives his Regtml. No. as 13029.

Some of the soldiers who enlisted in Manchester on or around 30 August 1914 to 1st September 1914 on Short Service enlistments and went to the KOSB are listed below.

Pte Albert Atkinson 12354 from Openshaw also enlisted on 24 August and joined the Depot at Berwick on the 26th. He went to the 6th Bn.

Pte W. Mcginn 12965 b. Manchester enlisted 30 August 1914 to Berwick 1 Sept 1914 posted to 2nd (Regular) Bn and BEF on 21 April 1915

Pte John Burton 13005 enlisted 30th August went to the Depot on 31 August and was posted to the 3rd Bn. in March and then the 2nd Bn (EF) on 2nd May 1915.

13029(?)

Pte William Henthorn 13109 enlisted 1st Sept 1914 to the 9th Bn

Pte John Blundell 13805 also from Openshaw attested on 1st September arriving at Berwick on the 4th. He went to the 9th Bn from the 7th and was actually released from detention to join the 1st Bn and the October draft to the 1st Bn and the MEF, to replace the losses at Gallipoli..

Pte John Burton 13905 enlisted on the 30th August 1914. He was posted to the 9th Bn on 15th October 1914. On 6th August 1915 he was posted to the 1st Bn (and the MEF) to make up the losses at Gallipolli.

Incidentally 95 1st Bn men died on that first day, some are clearly regulars with four digit numbers others have five figure numbers in the series 10--- and 11--- Pte Carl appears to be one of only a couple of 13--- e.g. Pte 13187 McKendry who hailed from the more traditional recruiting area of Midlothian.

Ken

[Camberwick]

Thanks for the correction on his service number. And, I believe you are right in suggesting that he might have joined the KOSBs because of the image that they had. (Certainly when I encountered them in Aden they had a reputation for being,er, ...well hard).

[IPT]

My great uncle was born in Liverpool but in late 1915 he enlisted at a local recruitment office into the 13th Middlesex.

Again, an uncommonly bad choice. He was wiped out with the vast majority of his battalion at Guillemont in 1916.

[dycer]

I dislike the phrase "wiped out" when referring to a Scots Battalion.

For example my Uncles were original members of their TF Battalion,in WW1,and lost their lives,but their Battalion survived.

George

[kenf48]

I dislike the phrase "wiped out" when referring to a Scots Battalion.

George

That would be the 13th MacMiddlesex Highlanders then

Ken

[nthornton1979]

My Great Uncle Albert was born and raised in Cheshire but joined the KOSB at the start of the war. I am told this is because of family ties with Scotland. Where as both his brothers joined the Cheshire Regiment

Neil