Jim Gordon Posted 3 June , 2004 Share Posted 3 June , 2004 The National Bible Society of Scotland undertook to issue a copy of the New Testament to all Scottish troops who requested them. They were also placed beside each Hospital bed as it was assumed that wounded personnel would have lost all their personal possessions. I presume that the term "Scottish troops" really means those men serving with Scottish Units. Can anyone tell me whether a similar practice was adopted for English troops ? It should be noted that the Society was extremely liberal in it's distribution of these Testaments, copies being sent to the French, Italian, Indian Armies etc. Regards Jim Gordon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyHollinger Posted 3 June , 2004 Share Posted 3 June , 2004 Your question reminded me of my largest scam in basic training. I carried a pocket new testament simply because, any time I was not doing something I would have the book out and appear to be reading the Word. No drill Sgt or roaming officer in the world will pick on someone reading the Word and as such was passed over for many a nasty detail ... sorry for the diversion from your question ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will O'Brien Posted 3 June , 2004 Share Posted 3 June , 2004 The National Bible Society of Scotland undertook to issue a copy of the New Testament to all Scottish troops who requested them. They were also placed beside each Hospital bed as it was assumed that wounded personnel would have lost all their personal possessions. I presume that the term "Scottish troops" really means those men serving with Scottish Units. Can anyone tell me whether a similar practice was adopted for English troops ? It should be noted that the Society was extremely liberal in it's distribution of these Testaments, copies being sent to the French, Italian, Indian Armies etc. Regards Jim Gordon Can't confirm whether there was a similar practice for distribution amongst English troops, but the National Bible Society of Scotland New Testament given to my Great Uncle who served with the Royal Scots Fusiliers (although he was born & bred in Leicester) is still in my family’s possession. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyDick Posted 3 June , 2004 Share Posted 3 June , 2004 I've got two armed services' bibles from WW2 that I picked up when I was a child. One is an Army version (accompanied by a slim line active service edition) belonging to a great uncle and the other is a Navy version given to my g-grandfather (also a WW1 veteran, but no trace of a bible from this period.) By all accounts my g-grandfather did not subscribe to established religions, hence its immaculate condition and the fact that his wife wrote his name etc. in the front, so I assume that they were freebies handed out in late 1939 (when they were published). The interior content of both is the same, although the Army version has colour plates of biblical scenes in it, a condensed account of psalms suitable for all occasions and sheet music for basic ceremonies and funerals. I remember we all got a free bible at school when we were about 11; a little thin paper book with red plastic covers donated by the Gideons: I think they're a US based group who distribute to schools, hotels, hospitals etc. Richard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david murdoch Posted 3 June , 2004 Share Posted 3 June , 2004 I have both my grandfather's pocket bible's both were Scot's one in Royal Scots, and the other in MGC(M) though he joined the MMGS in Glasgow. The bibles are identical, with brown cover and little colour scenes. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeppoSapone Posted 4 June , 2004 Share Posted 4 June , 2004 I remember we all got a free bible at school when we were about 11; a little thin paper book with red plastic covers donated by the Gideons: I think they're a US based group who distribute to schools, hotels, hospitals etc. Richard The Gideons issued a bible to American Servicemen in WW2, complete with an intro from FDR. I have a small collection of pocket bibles from both wars. They were issued by all sorts of Religious and Philanthropic organisations, some fairly obscure like the one presented to sailors by Aggie Weston. I have just learned that her charity is still going: http: //www.charitiesdirect.com/charity2/ch002372.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandyford Posted 4 June , 2004 Share Posted 4 June , 2004 Is this the sort of pocket new Testament you are discussing? Although it was with my 'old things', I had not realised that this New Testament may have belonged to my father in Northumberland Fusiliers WW1. It has no inscription but is labelled British & Foreign Bible Society, printed in 1915. I would be very happy to know that it belongs with my father's WW1 articles. Kate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyspiller Posted 4 June , 2004 Share Posted 4 June , 2004 Kate BFBS supplied Bibles all over the world and have now re-branded themselves 'The Bible Society'. They moved from London to Swindon in the 1980's. Their collection of historic Bibles are now held by Cambridge University. The curator of the collection is Rosemary Mathew [rm230@cam.ac.uk]. She was very helpful last year with some family history research that I did. BTW if you are wondering - I had a great-auntie who worked for the society for 40 odd years until her retirement in the late 1950s. Regards Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandyford Posted 4 June , 2004 Share Posted 4 June , 2004 Andy Do you mean that this New Testament is likely to be one which was probably bought in the ordinary way, by someone else in my family, as I had first thought? It has a cloth cover and approximately the dimensions of a cigarette packet but slightly less thick. Obviously some of the New Testaments which you have been discussing are clearly marked as having been presented to particular troops. Kate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Beckett Posted 4 June , 2004 Share Posted 4 June , 2004 This is a link to a thread I started about my Grandfathers Pocket New Testament. There may be some answers to the questions there. http://1914-1918.org/forum/index.php?act=S...indpost&p=22844 Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyspiller Posted 4 June , 2004 Share Posted 4 June , 2004 Kate I'm afraid that I am no Bible expert . I think that your best bet is to write to Rosemary Matthew (a very helpful lady) and ask her those questions. I am sure that she will be able to help. Regards Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandyford Posted 4 June , 2004 Share Posted 4 June , 2004 Peter Thank you for the reference to the earlier thread. It seems that I may have a perfectly ordinary pocket sized New Testament. Nothing to do with troops. Andy Are you sure you are not a Bibles expert? I know you are not yet our Chaplain but I think two or three posts on the subject may qualify you. In no time at all we will be calling on your expertise, quoting you in other threads etc. I have Emailed Rosemary Mathew on the off chance that she has seen something similar. Thank you. Kate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyspiller Posted 4 June , 2004 Share Posted 4 June , 2004 Kate I thought originally that I should have gone off-topic with this one, but the more I reflect on my great-aunt, sister to two of the men in my signature, engaged to a chap who never came home and never looked at another man again - I now get the feeling that it is all very relevant. At the cost of sounding like a closet bible collector the BFBS collection has some important bibles in it's archive. For sake of example, the one that I was interested in was Lord Shaftsbury's bible from the 19th century. This was the philanthropist who did a lot of good work in the East End of London. One of his collegues was my gg-grandfather and when Shaftsbury died this bible was given to gg-grandfather. I went to Cambridge to look at the bible and found various notes from Lord Shaftsbury to him in the bible and also some newspaper cuttings regarding it's provenace. Almost as good as finding a MM citation . Regards Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ypres Posted 4 June , 2004 Share Posted 4 June , 2004 Hi, Not sure if this helps or not. I have an "Active Service" Testament 1917. on the inside cover is Lord Roberts's message to the troops. ? 25th aug 1914 It reads, 'I ask you to put your faith in God. He will watch over you and strengthen you. You will find in this little Book guidence when you are in health, comfort when you are in sickness, and strenth when you are in adversity.' Unfortunately there are no other markings and the decision form on the back inside cover has not been filled in. Mandy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandyford Posted 4 June , 2004 Share Posted 4 June , 2004 Andy Of course it's relevant and I am delighted with your account, although Lord Shaftbury's bible was probably not pocket size. To see writings by, to or about ancestors is sometimes the closest we come to feeling that we are in their time and are hearing them speak or hearing words that they heard. Lord Shaftsbury and your gg grandfather, what a connection! Your family must have given that Bible to the museum. Mandy I have never seen an active service Testament. Is the unfilled in declaration, a declaration or testament of willingness for active service? Kate C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandyford Posted 4 June , 2004 Share Posted 4 June , 2004 Jim You might be able to tell that I am working my way towards answering whether my father was issued with a New Testament in a similar way to the Scottish troops. Kate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ypres Posted 4 June , 2004 Share Posted 4 June , 2004 Kate, as follows: DECISION FORM Being convinced that i am a sinner, and believing that Christ died for me, I now receive Him as my personal Saviour, and with His help I intend to confess Him before Men. "But as many received Him, to them gave He power to become the sons of God, even to them who believe on His name." John 1. 12. Name.................................... Address.................................. ................................................. If you desire any further spititual guidance please apply to the Secretary, Scripture Gift Mission, 15. Strand, London. W.C. 2 Any ideas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandyford Posted 4 June , 2004 Share Posted 4 June , 2004 above will show such a bible given to members of the army from Northern Ireland. Hope this is of interest! Having looked at the Ebay example from Northern Ireland and those in the link from Peter, I do not think that my New Testament is anything like them. It is beginning to occur to me that my father may have got the New Testament without any inscription when he was in hospital in Lincoln for 18 mths 1915/16. Jim mentions in the first post that the New Testaments were provided for soldiers in hospital. Even so, I would have thought that the donating Association would have marked the copy in some way. Mandy The declaration which you have shown is quite different from what I expected. I have never seen anything similar and so I am sorry that I can't help with any ideas. Kate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul guthrie Posted 5 June , 2004 Share Posted 5 June , 2004 I have one of these issued to Pvt Lewis Charlesworth, 2d Manchesters KIA Ocotber 8 `1918 buried at Tyne Cot. " As we loved him. so we miss him". He was a pre war regular called up in 1914 from reserves, saw much action, went missing in 14. He got the testament at Rouen in 15. Born Delph, lived in Oldham. I was able to get much information on him & wrote article for US WFA magazine which I can send to any interested man. He is on the large memorial at Pots & Pans, one of 7 brothers who served, rest survivied, had 6 sons, wish I could find a relative to give him/her the bible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desmond7 Posted 5 June , 2004 Share Posted 5 June , 2004 Be aware also that these Testaments were, on many occasions, the 'wallet' in which family pictures were kept. My Uncle Jimmy was badly wounded and captured at Anzio in WW2. He kept all his family pictures in his pocket Bible - although he was no saint! When he was searched after capture, the front line German soldiers gave him back the Bible and his pictures. However, when he reached the second 'line' these were taken off him and cast aside. In WW1 the display of family pictures - often kept in these pocket Bibles - could be the difference between life and death. Ernst Junger gives a very graphic example of how such a display by a wounded soldier moved him. You will also find, I am sure, accounts of men holding up these Bibles to their captors and showing their family pictures as a plea not to be killed in the heat of the moment. Des Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Gordon Posted 6 June , 2004 Author Share Posted 6 June , 2004 May I just add to the above I seem to remember seeing a New Testament identical to the one I ossess in which was embedded a bullet. It had literally saved his life. I think I saw it in the Gordon Highlander Museum in Aberdeen but I may be wrong. Regards Jim Gordon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Beckett Posted 7 June , 2004 Share Posted 7 June , 2004 I have scanned "my" New Testament so you can compare. Pic 1 Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Beckett Posted 7 June , 2004 Share Posted 7 June , 2004 Pic 2 - Open on front page Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Beckett Posted 7 June , 2004 Share Posted 7 June , 2004 Pic 3 Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
healdav Posted 7 June , 2004 Share Posted 7 June , 2004 Aggie Weston's was founded by Agnes Weston! who set up hostles in all the main dockyard towns. The problem was that when men were paid off from one ship or were on long leave they often had nowhere to go; they could be orphans, have no remaining family, etc. No package holidays in the 19th century. The only places were rip off joints, brothels and smelly hotels. She set up these hostels that were reasonable priced, clean and had decent facilities for eating, for sleeping, quiet rooms, etc. They were enormously popular. Today, the charity and the hostels still exist, albeit on a much reduced scale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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