Leger Holidays

[pooter]

Just one question, and i think i have seen the adverts on my television?

Who are the Tour Guides?

Thought about giving my Mother a birthday treat, now, i am having second thoughts.

Chris.

I wouldn't worry about the guides they are excellent and really make the trips worthwhile. They go to a lot of trouble to make visits to cemeteries interesting by pointing out things we wouldn't know about. They bring along items of interest such as medals, photographs. stories etc.

[AlanCurragh]

Peter - I have no experience of Leger Tours or their customer service but I have to say that I think your post (from which I have removed the content) is disgraceful - if Paul wishes to reply to you privately, you should respect his wishes. I think you should publicly apologise to Paul

Alan

[Roger H]

I have no experience of Leger Tours or their customer service but I have to say that I think your post is disgraceful - if Paul wishes to reply to you privately, you should respect his wishes. I think you should publicly apologise to Paul

Alan

Alan

Here, here. You beat me to it with your post. I couldn't believe what I read!

Roger

Edited to add: And I think the offending post should be removed forthwith.

[Neil Mackenzie]

Chris.

I am sure the guide/s will be very good if not excellent.

My personal view is that their 'optional' approach for lunches and some parts of some tours was designed to keep the headline price as low as possible. Nothing wrong in that strategy at all but, given the volume of customers they handle, Leger would probably be cheaper than all other battlefield tour companies even if they included these in the main price.

I am sure that if your Mother was to go she would have a very good time - I always did.

Neil

[Paul Reed]

I have so far refrained from posting in this thread for a number of reasons. I don't subscribe to what some here delight in - trial by forum - and personally I don't feel comfortable coming onto a forum I visit to read about the Great War and Great War related news and discussing something I have a financial interest in.

However, I feel I have to answer the now deleted comments by Peter Kennedy. Actually I am quite relaxed about criticism; I learnt long ago whether it is tours, writing, or television people will criticise no matter what you do, or how well you do it. The only times I have ever complained about a thread criticising something I am involved with is when it has veered into personal attack or slander, something I am sure no-one would approve of. In this particular case I can only wonder at a comment that to have taken time to answer and offer to assist via private message was in some way trying to censor things, especially as the starter of this thread has been only too vocal in how he feels.

Just to confirm, yes I do work for Leger; in fact I am their head battlefield guide, and have been for many years. We take a large volume of passengers to the battlefields (at least 10,000 a year for the last 5+ years), and sadly no matter how hard we try we are never going to please all the people all of the time. Generally I would like to think we have a good reputation, especially in the content of our tours, all drawn up by myself, and the quality of our guides which are all selected by me.

Neil MacKenzie's comments are quite right; as is common practice in the tourist industry, Leger go for what is known as a low lead-in price. While Neil (who I have had the pleasure of being on the battlefields with several times) is someone for whom price is not a major factor, that is not true for a majority of people who book with us. The 'Optionals' we offer on battlefields only relate to lunchtime meals (where available and necessary) and entrance to museums: they have several benefits for the passenger - it saves time, and also saves them money. No-one, despite comments above, are forced to take them, and Peter Kennedy's comments on this are both unhelpful and miss-informed in this respect.

Finally, I would never claim we are the only ones who are capable of doing battlefields; far from it... there are many companies out there, and any potential visitor wanting to go on a tour should have a good look at what is available. The internet has made that very easy to do.

[bluedog]

Paul

Your thread above was answered in true diplomacy , as one must display when dealing with

tour parties.

Being a Tour Leader on an annual basis at Gallipoli I agree wholeheartily with your posted

comments.

Which American President said:

"You Can Please Some Of The People Some Of The Time,

And Most Of The People Most Of The Time,

But You Cannot Please All The People All Of THe Time"

Peter

[Rayessex]

Hi all,

The Tours speak for themselves. 18 Months after my, All Quiet on the Western Front Tour, I am still totally impressed. Go on it you will enjoy it, fantastic! Will admit the guides dry Welsh sense of humour, took a bit of getting used to, but he was first class.

Ray

[stevew]

Having never been on a tour I am not really in a position to comment, but what I will say is I have met some of the guides, and a nicer bunch you won't find IMHO. I also know people who have been on tours with Leger, one only goes to the battlefields with Leger and has never had a bad word to say about them and the other went on one tour and was extremely impressed. Personally I wouldn't hesitate to recommend Leger to anyone who wants an organised tour

[dfaulder]

This thread seems to me to illustrate that as with many organisations the Front Line (pun intended) Staff are often very good and dedicated, but they can do nothing about the back office who are often very bottom line focused (if managers), or underpaid under trained temps (if call handlers). Sometimes protecting the "front line" at the expense of lines of communication can be a false economy.

David

[peterkennedy]

I have so far refrained from posting in this thread for a number of reasons. I don't subscribe to what some here delight in - trial by forum - and personally I don't feel comfortable coming onto a forum I visit to read about the Great War and Great War related news and discussing something I have a financial interest in.

However, I feel I have to answer the now deleted comments by Peter Kennedy. Actually I am quite relaxed about criticism; I learnt long ago whether it is tours, writing, or television people will criticise no matter what you do, or how well you do it. The only times I have ever complained about a thread criticising something I am involved with is when it has veered into personal attack or slander, something I am sure no-one would approve of. In this particular case I can only wonder at a comment that to have taken time to answer and offer to assist via private message was in some way trying to censor things, especially as the starter of this thread has been only too vocal in how he feels.

Just to confirm, yes I do work for Leger; in fact I am their head battlefield guide, and have been for many years. We take a large volume of passengers to the battlefields (at least 10,000 a year for the last 5+ years), and sadly no matter how hard we try we are never going to please all the people all of the time. Generally I would like to think we have a good reputation, especially in the content of our tours, all drawn up by myself, and the quality of our guides which are all selected by me.

Neil MacKenzie's comments are quite right; as is common practice in the tourist industry, Leger go for what is known as a low lead-in price. While Neil (who I have had the pleasure of being on the battlefields with several times) is someone for whom price is not a major factor, that is not true for a majority of people who book with us. The 'Optionals' we offer on battlefields only relate to lunchtime meals (where available and necessary) and entrance to museums: they have several benefits for the passenger - it saves time, and also saves them money. No-one, despite comments above, are forced to take them, and Peter Kennedy's comments on this are both unhelpful and miss-informed in this respect.

Finally, I would never claim we are the only ones who are capable of doing battlefields; far from it... there are many companies out there, and any potential visitor wanting to go on a tour should have a good look at what is available. The internet has made that very easy to do.

My comments are not mis-informed. They are from the experience of a Leger Tour. And they are backed up by many of the posts on this thread.

Leger's answer to a problem is to state that the "correspondence is now closed".

[AlanCurragh]

My comments are not mis-informed. They are from the experience of a Leger Tour. And they are backed up by many of the posts on this thread.

Leger's answer to a problem is to state that the "correspondence is now closed".

...and, in my opinion, you still owe Paul an apology

Alan

Edit - just to clarify, you're quite entitled to express your opinion. It is your discussion of the contents of a private message that I am referring to here

Edited 8 July , 2010 by MagicRat

[stevem49]

We had one couple on our trip who did not take the option of an excellant packed lunch. At breakfast each morning they would load a bag with dry rolls They were the ones who wanted the group photo at the end (wonder what happened to that Mr C )

Our Bulgarian coach drivers carrot wine was wonderful (well I thought so)

S

[harley1962]

Steve

I know what you mean the only one's not to take the lunches on our tour carried a bag round with them full of things taken from breakfast and took anything they didn't have to pay for, they even asked to borrow someone's mobile phone on the return journey to phone home even though we'd just stopped at a service station. The most unfortunate part for us was they were the only 2 from the same town as us.

As for Leger's packed lunches we throughly enjoyed them and thought they were well worth the money. I cannot wait for my next battlefield tour with Leger in a couple of weeks time.

Harley1962

[judy7007]

Anyone planning on doing one of Leger's battlefield tours needs to bear the following in mind -

The actual tour itself is very good but, if you have any problems, the customer services afterwards is extremely poor. The company appear to be quite happy to take your money - and there their interest ends.

The so-called "customer relations officer" cannot even put a letter together without spelling mistakes. I have had two from him and they are both patronising and completely ignore the points raised.

I would not recommend this company to anyone.

I think the main point to focus on is that 'the actual tour itself is very good'. I have been on a number of battlefield tours with Leger (and also visited the battlefields with two other companies - chosen purely because of specific itineraries). I have just recently taken a local tour whilst visiting the battlefields independently. Without a doubt the Leger battlefield guides have far outshone any other guides I have travelled with. That's the reason I have two more battlefield tours booked with them for this year.

Judy

[auchonvillerssomme]

I think that we also need to consider the fact that their are peoples jobs at risk here, the issues posted as problems could have really been dealt with following further consultation either with the companies involved or if the complainants fell that strongly then go to trading standards. Personally I have never been with a tour but if I had wanted to there are posts that may well put me off at least one organisation, this is unfair to the organisation involved and to their employees, if they were that bad they wouldn't be in business. I have no idea what the comments about Paul being alluded to but he has been put in a position which has no place on this forum. He is one of the very people who have made the Battlefields accessible to everyone, not just the elitist researcher.

Mick

[dfaulder]

I think that we also need to consider the fact that their are peoples jobs at risk here, the issues posted as problems could have really been dealt with following further consultation either with the companies involved or if the complainants fell that strongly then go to trading standards. Personally I have never been with a tour but if I had wanted to there are posts that may well put me off at least one organisation, this is unfair to the organisation involved and to their employees, if they were that bad they wouldn't be in business.

I think the forum is the correct place to flag the sort of problems originally raised - but they should be specific. Yes, bad companies will go out of business, when their reputation becomes bad; but if we say no one should publicly complain, how are we to know that company X has say a non responsive customer service department?

We know there is a problem when we see a pattern of feedback. If we were to take one complaint as gospel, yes there is a problem with allowing public complaints - but I hope that we look for a pattern. This one (the OP) may be a case that the tour managers are heartily sick of the individual and believe that there is no way that his concerns can be addressed. In these sorts of cases they may decide to take the view "case closed" and risk the complainant going public or going to trading standards (I have worked for a company were we fairly regularly had to do this). If necessary the company can issue a "cease and desist" type letter to the complainant if he goes public and is making accusations that are not supported by the facts. On the other hand this complaint may be valid and may form part of a pattern. I will not be swayed by one complaint.

I have no idea what the comments about Paul being alluded to but he has been put in a position which has no place on this forum. He is one of the very people who have made the Battlefields accessible to everyone, not just the elitist researcher.

Mick

I agree that it is unfortunate that Paul was dragged into this; it sounds as if he (who was not part of the original issue) tried to privately correspond with the complainant and got publicly stung as a result - not fair on him (or ultimately on us); it just encourages the "never apologise, never explain" culture. Who knows, that may be the reason for the original complaint!

David

[Paul Reed]

It's very difficult for me to comment further on this, but just for the record the basis for the original complaint by Mr Kennedy to the Leger office was that he arrived just over one hour late at his UK drop off, missing a pre-arranged taxi he had ordered. The company always gives an approximate return time for passengers, but occasionally things go amiss, and of course Leger cannot be held responsible for third party arrangements. On this occasion things did go amiss, and I quite understand Mr Kennedy's upset about that - he asked for an apology for the lateness and as I understand it, he got that. But I must say I less understand his behaviour here.

[Len Trim]

Just to put my two pence worth in here. I used Leger Tours to 'do' Arnhem and the Rhine crossings. As an ex para and one of the men who did the jump sequences in the film 'A Bridge Too Far' things close to my heart. It was an excellent trip, the guide was very good and the hotels perfectly acceptable. I would have no hesitation in doing another trip with Leger, but it is all so very far away from Scotland. Something that even Leger can not change

Len

[keithmroberts]

I think this thread has run long enough. Maybe its time for it to be closed.

Keith

[ianw]

Message seems to be that some people have had a bad experience either on a tour or with customer service when they came back - I would imagine that the same could be said about every tour company on the planet given that tours involve a lot of people trying to interface with each other - some on both sides of the relationship will be bonkers - and the lottery that is international travel.

That said poor customer service and failure to assuage people's concerns is really stupid - if only because it is good business practice to try to make the customer happy if your company was at fault.

[1st_east_yorks]

Have done two trips with Leger and found them to be good value. Both to the Somme.

[judy7007]

Message seems to be that some people have had a bad experience either on a tour or with customer service when they came back - I would imagine that the same could be said about every tour company on the planet given that tours involve a lot of people trying to interface with each other - some on both sides of the relationship will be bonkers - and the lottery that is international travel.

That said poor customer service and failure to assuage people's concerns is really stupid - if only because it is good business practice to try to make the customer happy if your company was at fault.

I feel I have to come in just one more time as I have had experience with contacting Leger customer service three times in the last four years (out of about 16 Leger trips, not battlefield trips in the early days). I felt that on each occasion I had valid reason to contact them and expressed my concerns politely, concisely and in writing - in response they could not have been more helpful or pleasant and extremely good outcomes were reached. On one occasion the airconditioning did not work for an overnight trip to Rome! It was extremely hot and wet towels around the neck were the only solution - these things happen. One one occasion an 'optional extra Bavarian night' turned out to be an somewhat of a 'disaster' when the Leger group was seated in the next room and could not actually observe any of the dancing! We all walked out. Again, when I wrote and asked for a refund of the amount paid for the optional extra, a cheque was in the post very quickly with sincere apologies. I honestly can't remember what the other occasion was but I know that vouchers were received. There have been quite a few 'minor annoyances' - once we sat on a coach for 2 hours at the interchange at Dover as one of the coaches had missed the ferry (I think they change on the other side now) - and we have been taken some very unusual and lengthy ways back to our drop off point! But really, these sorts of issues are (to me) not very big in the big picture of life - and the battlefield information and the quality of the battlefield guides make up for it all many times over.

Judy

[Krithia]

(wonder what happened to that Mr C)

Still around Mr M

[John_Hartley]

You only have to look at review websites (such as Trip Advisor) to see that for every post saying somewhere was great, there's another saying it wasnt. Of course, the only folk who comment are those who really hated something or really loved something. The vast majority of customers will have just got enjoying their hotel/cruise/holiday/restaurant/whatever

[peterkennedy]

It's very difficult for me to comment further on this, but just for the record the basis for the original complaint by Mr Kennedy to the Leger office was that he arrived just over one hour late at his UK drop off, missing a pre-arranged taxi he had ordered. The company always gives an approximate return time for passengers, but occasionally things go amiss, and of course Leger cannot be held responsible for third party arrangements. On this occasion things did go amiss, and I quite understand Mr Kennedy's upset about that - he asked for an apology for the lateness and as I understand it, he got that. But I must say I less understand his behaviour here.

It would appear that Mr Reed has been mis-informed as to the original complaint. The original complaint is not the main bone of contention with Leger. An apology or explanation has still not been received anyway.

I agree with Keith Roberts - it's time this post was ended as the thread has gone off on a tangent away from the original point.