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WW1 Medals Stolen..help!

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John Gilinsky

David: toothbrushes? NOPE! Tongues, fingers, hands and toes with plenty of disinfectant soap!

John

Toronto

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Steven Broomfield

Phil - given the nature of the loss, I think I'd be chasing the boys in blue. A simple Google search shows that just about the only result for your loss is a link to this thread, plus a link to one on what looks like an irish board, posted by a member of this Forum.

Personally, I would have thought the loss of a VC/MM group would have hit the news stands, so to speak, so I'd check (if I were you) that the police are giving this the urgency it requires. Surely they must be doing something to publicise this act.

Oh, and if the cops believe it was 'pure luck' that you were burgled, then your local burglars must the be the luckiest burglars in England. I'd really worry the law are taking this as seriously as they should.

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keithmroberts

Phil

I would echo Steven's message, and suggest that you also contact your local BBC regional news, as well as your local paper, they may well be interested, and once one media outlet gets involved the others will pick the item up.

Keith

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MartH

Sorry to hear about your lose, I hope you get it back.

10 years ago I got burgled and my DVDs got nicked and the house searched. The police treated it as a normal case until I explained my super valued Trafalgar memorabilia was out of the bank vault in the house but not stolen, their attitude changed too and the place was like a scene out of some forensic TV program, dusting for fingerprints, UV lights the lot, etc. They were convinced it was a put up job, and the main man said jobs like this where rarely coincidence, make a fuss.

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Kate Wills
I see your point... I was asked to put them up mate.I've had them 3 weeks not alot of people knew I had them the police think it was pot luck thief his words...

Phil,

Sorry to hear about this.

Was anything else taken?

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Pighills

Yes, I'm sorry too, hope you get them back before too long.

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Recce_Mitch

Go to the media and make a big noise

Cheers

Paul

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John Gilinsky

DESPERATE: Contact one of the PR firms and see if they will do a brief consultation for free and/or do pro bono work for the PR for themselves for a local guy stiffed by a miscreants. Knowlton and Hill anyone? Like hiring an agent to do all that media / PR stuff you may not know how to go about etc...

John

Toronto

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AIF

In December 2007 nine Victoria Crosses were stolen in New Zealand and the whole world knew about it. One VC is stolen in England and only a handful of people seem to care.

New Zealand: Black market exists for stolen Victoria Cross medals

December 5, 2007 – 13:24

December 05, 2007

ONE of New Zealand’s leading experts on the lives of its Victoria Cross-winning soldiers has warned there is a black market ready to receive a haul of nine VCs stolen from a museum south of Auckland.

Glyn Harper, the director of the Centre for Defence Studies at Massey University, said markets did exist for stolen medals.

“There are people whose life revolves around collecting these things and they do come up for auction,” he said.

“These medals, however, will never be sold publicly. There is still a black market.”

The world’s biggest collector of VCs, English lord Michael Ashcroft, has offered a $NZ200,000 ($174,500) reward for the return of the medals as police begin to interview every resident of the army town of Waiouru, where the stolen medals were housed.

Lord Ashcroft – who has 140 VCs in his collection – estimated the prize medal among those stolen, the Captain Charles Upham cross and bar, was worth about $2.5million, with the other VCs worth more than $5million.

New Zealand Prime Minister Helen Clark has speculated the four-minute theft on Sunday morning was a professional operation to fill an order.

She said the theft had been “surgically executed”.

Australian War Memorial heraldry curator Nick Fletcher, who is responsible for Australia’s national collection of 61 VCs, said the Upham VC was one of only three in existence with a bar, which means the medal has been awarded twice.

He said it was particularly noteworthy because the other two were awarded to medics and Captain Upham was the only fighting soldier to receive the bravery award twice.

Captain Upham was awarded his first VC in 1941 and his second in 1942. Lord Ashcroft described it during a radio interview yesterday as the “Holy Grail” of Victoria Crosses.

The thieves stole as many as 100 medals during the raid.

Police, who were yesterday still inspecting security camera footage, said they planned to interview all 500 residents of Waiouru. Interpol and the country’s border security agencies have been alerted.

Mr Fletcher said the thefts had put medal collectors on guard about the security of their collections.

Victoria Crosses rarely surface at auction in Australia. Two VCs auctioned last year, including the final VC from Gallipoli which was purchased by Seven Network owner Kerry Stokes for about $1.2million and donated to the Australian War Memorial.

Additional reporting: NZPA

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/

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AIF

VICTORIA CROSSES REPORTED STOLEN:

Captain William Faulds' Victoria Cross was stolen in October 1994 off a display in the National Museum of Military History, Johannesburg. The VC has never been recovered. ( Faulds' VC action took place at Delville Wood, Somme, France, on 18 July 1916 )

William FAULDS

1st Bn, South African Infantry

Petty Officer Alfred Sephton's Victoria Cross was stolen on 25 September 1990 whilst on display in Coventry Cathedral. The VC has never been recovered. ( Sephton was awarded his VC for action on HMS 'Coventry' in the Mediterranean on 18 May 1941 )

Alfred SEPHTON

Royal Navy - HMS 'Coventry'

L / Corporal Francis Jefferson's Victoria Cross was stolen in January 1982 during a burglary at his mother's home at Luton Street, Bolton, Lancashire. The VC has never been recovered. ( Jefferson's VC action took place at Monte Cassino, Italy, on 16 May 1944 )

Francis JEFFERSON

2nd Bn, Lancashire Fusiliers

Brigadier Milton Gregg's Victoria Cross was stolen on 24 December 1978 from the Royal Canadian Regiment Museum, London, Ontario. The VC has never been recovered. ( Gregg's VC action took place near Cambrai, France, between 27 September and 1 October 1918 )

Milton GREGG

Royal Canadian Regiment

Captain Edward Bellew's Victoria Cross is believed to have been stolen from the Royal Canadian Military Institute, Toronto, between January 1975 and 22 July 1977. The VC has never been recovered. ( Bellew's VC action took place near Kerselaere, Belgium, on 24 April 1915 )

Edward BELLEW

7th Bn, CEF

Lance Corporal Rambahadur Limbu's Victoria Cross was stolen, along with all his possesions, whilst on a train journey from India to his native Nepal in 1967. Rambahadur Limbu later received an official replacement VC. ( Rambahadur Limbu's VC action took place in Sarawak in 1965 )

Rambahadur LIMBU

10th Gurkha Rifles

Private John O'Neill's Victoria Cross and campaign medals were stolen on 13 February 1962 during a burglary at the premises of coin & medal dealer Seaby & Co, in Great Portland Street, London. The VC has never been recovered. ( O'Neill's VC action took place at Moorseele, Belgium, on 14 October 1918 ).

John O'NEILL

Leinster Regiment

Private A thief stole John McDougall's Victoria Cross from a house in Scotland in 1960, leaving behind the ribbon and suspension bar, which are now on display in the Essex Regiment Museum. The VC has never been recovered. ( McDougall's VC action took place at Taku Forts, China, on 21 August 1860 ).

John MCDOUGALL

44th Regiment

Captain Gian Singh's Victoria Cross was stolen between 26 June and 23 September 1960. A replacement was issued to him on 18 September 1961. The original VC has never been recovered. ( Singh's VC action took place at Kamye, Myingyan Road, Burma, on 2 March 1945 )

Gian SINGH

4th Bn, 15th Punjab Regiment

Lieutenant George Knowland's Victoria Cross was stolen in 1958 from the Spreadeagle Inn, Whitecross Street, Dinsbury, London. The VC has never been recovered. ( Knowland's VC action took place near Kangaw, Burma, on 31 January 1945 )

George KNOWLAND

Royal Norfolk Regiment

Major The Hawker family belongings were left behind after the fall of France in 1940. On their return, their possessions had been looted and stolen, including the VC. A replacement was issued to Hawker's brother on 3 February 1960. ( Hawker's VC action took place over Hooge, Belgium on 25 July 1915 )

Lanoe HAWKER

6 Sqdn, Royal Flying Corps

Private Thomas Holmes' Victoria Cross was stolen from him in 1935. A replacement was issued to him on 9 August 1935 and this was also stolen in 1978, but later retrieved. The original VC has never been recovered. ( Holmes' VC action took place at Wolf Copse, Passchendaele, Belgium, on 26 October 1917 )

Thomas HOLMES

4th Canadian Mounted Rifles

Sergeant In 1892 a replacement Victoria Cross was sent to William Gordon whose original had been stolen. This VC now resides in the Jamaica Defence Force Museum, Kingston. The original VC has never been recovered. ( Gordon's VC action took place Toniataba, West Africa, on 13 March 1892 ).

William GORDON

West India Regiment

Mr In 1878 a replacement Victoria Cross was sent to the India Office for forwarding to William McDonell, a High Court Judge in Calcutta, to replace his VC which had been stolen. The original VC has never been recovered. ( McDonell's VC action took place at Arrah during the Indian Mutiny on 30 July 1857 ).

William MCDONELL

Bengal Civil Service

Ensign In May 1868 a replacement Victoria Cross was sent to the GOC Melbourne for forwarding to William McKenna whose original had been stolen. This VC now resides in the Auckland Museum. The original VC has never been recovered. ( McKenna's VC action took place in New Zealand, on 7 September 1863 ).

Edward MCKENNA

65th Regiment

VICTORIA CROSSES LOST IN MYSTERIOUS CIRCUMSTANCES:

Lt General It is believed the Victoria Cross awarded to Henry Havelock-Allan went missing during his lifetime, possibly lost or stolen after he left India. He held several posts at home and abroad the whole time wearing a 'copy' Victoria Cross. The Havelock-Allan family have no knowledge of the whereabouts of the original VC.

Henry HAVELOCK-ALLAN

10th Regiment

Private The loss of Samuel Harvey's Victoria Cross in the 1920s are variously believed to be: swapped for beer in a pub; lost in a wood near Ipswich whilst returning home from a pub; or possibly Harvey sold his Victoria Cross privately. There have been no sightings of the VC since.

Samuel HARVEY

York & Lancaster Regiment

Lieutenant The Duncan Home Victoria Cross was believed lost sometime in the 1920s after children took the VC outside of the house to play 'soldiers' with it in a field. Intensive searches of the field and the surrounding area failed to find it. There have been no sightings of the VC since.

Duncan HOME

Royal Engineers

VICTORIA CROSSES REPORTED AS BEING DESTROYED:

Captain Julian Gribble's Victoria Cross was destroyed in a fire at his brother's home Wamil Hall, near Mildenhall, Suffolk, in 1958. As far as is known no replacement Victoria Cross was requested by the family. ( Gribble's VC action took place at Hermies Ridge, France, on 23 March 1918 )

Julian GRIBBLE

Warwickshire Regiment

Lieutenant Hugh McKenzie's Victoria Cross was destroyed in a fire in Canada on 24 May 1955. A replacement VC was issued and now resides in the Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry Museum, Calgary, Alberta. ( McKenzie's VC action took place at Meescheele Spur, Belgium, on 30 October 1917 )

Hugh MCKENZIE

Canadian MG Corps

2nd Lieutenant George Cates' Victoria Cross was destroyed in a fire in 1951. A replacement VC was issued and now resides in the Royal Green Jackets Museum, Winchester, Hampshire. ( Cates' VC action took place at Bouchavesnes, France, on 8 March 1917 )

George CATES

2nd Bn, Rifle Brigade

Private James Osborne's Victoria Cross was destroyed during an air raid on Belfast in 1941. A replacement VC was never applied for. ( Osborne's VC action took place at Wesselstroom, South Africa, on 22 February 1881 )

James OSBORNE

Northamptonshire Regiment

Lieutenant Colonel Joseph Crowe's Victoria Cross was destroyed when his sister's farm caught fire at Firlands, Rondebosch, Cape Province, South Africa. The Victoria Cross was not recovered from the debris. ( Crowe's VC action took place at Cawnpore, India, on 12 August 1857 )

Joseph CROWE

Seaforth Highlanders

Hospital Apprentice Following Andrew Fitzgibbon's death on 7th March 1883 in Delhi, India, it is believed his Victoria Cross was buried with him in Delhi's Old Military Cemetery. His grave is not marked and there is no indication that a headstone ever existed. ( Fitzgibbon's VC action took place at the Taku Forts, China, on 21 August 1860 )

Andrew FITZGIBBON

Bengal Medical Service

Go to VC Home Page

Iain Stewart, 6 July 2009

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janecavell
. . .I've had them 3 weeks not alot of people knew I had them. . .

Phil, I think you may have told more people than you realised by putting a message on the Find a Grave site. I wonder if a clever thief might have been able to track you down from the information you've given there?

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jon_armstrong

The thief wouldn't have to be that clever. Based on what he left on that site within 20 seconds I had a picture of Phil, his date of birth, the name of the town where he lives, and *ahem* what kind of ladies he likes.

I'm sure if I took the trouble to keep going I could get his actual address...

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Krithia
In December 2007 nine Victoria Crosses were stolen in New Zealand and the whole world knew about it. One VC is stolen in England and only a handful of people seem to care.

Get on to the press then! putting it on one website is not going to get it back. Many of us really care, VC or otherwise, so don't be so unsupportingly stupid with your remark.

I am sure (or hope) this group will reappear again, but only with high profile, so get onto the press now!!

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John_Hartley
The thief wouldn't have to be that clever. Based on what he left on that site within 20 seconds I had a picture of Phil, his date of birth, the name of the town where he lives, and *ahem* what kind of ladies he likes.

I'm sure if I took the trouble to keep going I could get his actual address...

Indeed, Jon. Fairly easy-peasy in spite of a relatively common name.

And I'd be reasonably confident of a punt at Phil's address as well after 5 minutes Googling.

(Have emailed the two local BBC newsdesks; King's Own Regimental Museum and Iain at victoriacross.org)

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Raster Scanning

Kate asked if anything else was stolen? Good question that will possibly give a clue as to the nature of the theft.

I see you have deleted the message asking me not to contribute, so I will just say I find it incredible you are not being a bit more assertive over this loss.

You have asked for help but you do not appear to be taking it when given. I am sorry that these medals were stolen from you, and I hope you get them back, but you need to start being more pro active.

First person I would contact is Lord Ashcroft, he might get to hear something that could help you.

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Unknownsoldier
Indeed, Jon. Fairly easy-peasy in spite of a relatively common name.

And I'd be reasonably confident of a punt at Phil's address as well after 5 minutes Googling.

Just a thought, and no wish to bring his private life into this discussion, but if you have met anyone through a dating site etc. recently who never showed? As this could be a professional job, and within 5 minutes i found the same info, and can be fairly sure of finding an address too, although if you can't, meeting up with someone for a beer via facebook etc. then no one turning up, you leave in dissapointment and someone follows you home, easy to do........

I say as people above say, contact the media and kick up a fuss.....

Tom

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Unknownsoldier
Kate asked if anything else was stolen? Good question that will possibly give a clue as to the nature of the theft.

I see you have deleted the message asking me not to contribute, so I will just say I find it incredible you are not being a bit more assertive over this loss.

You have asked for help but you do not appear to be taking it when given. I am sorry that these medals were stolen from you, and I hope you get them back, but you need to start being more pro active.

First person I would contact is Lord Ashcroft, he might get to hear something that could help you.

If that is a picture from phil, i have to say the VC didn't look right to me.... and as said not much seems to have been done in the real world, only wishing to play devils advocate here and cast no aspersions of character, but could this be a prank???

Tom

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John_Hartley
Kate asked if anything else was stolen? Good question that will possibly give a clue as to the nature of the theft.

John

It is probably important that details are not discussed in public. The nature of the actual burglary and what else might have been taken will have been noted by the police as being helpful. The last thing we want is that the thief panics and destroys or otherwise permanently disposes of the medals

John

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KevinBattle

If true, this medal group is immensely valuable yet there is a certain feeling of inaction.

Any chance of a Pal in the locality checking with the Police to see what really is going on?

If it were mine, I'd be devastated that I have let the family down in this way.

Sorry, Phil, but you have to be seen by us to be doing something other than posting messages here.

When we were burgled, the Police were initially unconcerned until they were told that we had good forensic evidences, foot and fingerprints.

They were down in next to no time with the CSI type stuff and were able to catch some of our burglars.

Same when they tried breaking into our car, they were able to trace the bloodstains and get the guy.

So, how did they get in, have you cleaned up or are there still forensic traces.

FFS, stop posting on here and lets see the front page news about it!

On another level, I am shocked at how many VC's have been stolen and never recovered.... it does seem possible that there is some creepy fellow with a basement full of trophies he cannot let anyone see!!

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Unknownsoldier
Are you being serious? I've have Granda report visiting me tomorrow and now a National paper is involved do you realy think.. Its a prank you idiot...

Thanks, how nice you are, I stated I was playing devils advocate. Now you've told us, but up to this point, there has been two links online and thats it, just stating the facts here, I'll await the report tomorrow.

Not the only doubter, there are lots, and lots of the same concensus as me on the medal (sorry from th photo it looks like a replica, is it possible Neely had a copy for parade wear? ). http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/prewar/26986-...-32827-a-2.html

Tom :D

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Seadog

Oh dear! :huh:

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John Gilinsky

CSI: Scotland Yard! Look do the following asap:

Monday at the latest :

a) Contact your own Member of Parliament

B) Contact the Minister of Defence

c) Contact the Prime Minister's Office (right now I cannot do this on your behalf becuase he is here in Toronto behind a 20 foot high security fence... :rolleyes: )

d) Contact the head of the British Legion

e) Contact the head of BBC TELEVISION (visuals are the best as we all know) requesting (demanding) air time or an interview

f) Contact your local veteran's groups

g) Contact INTERPOL (Paris HQ) and file a formal theft report documenting in as much detail for internationally tracing the possible pawning, hawking, sale etc...of the VC especially

h) Wear a sandwich board and walk up and down the busiest part of the town or city that you live in for at least a couple of hours when the highest density of traffic (vehicular / pedestrian) occurss (usually morning and afternoon rush hours during Mon - Fri.) soliciting aid to find your relative's stolen VC etc....

i) Don't be turned off by some unattendend insenstive remarks or comments and focus on getting your stuff back as quickly and legally as possible. It appears that being a new member that many older members have truly felt for you and are trying to help you out. Not really knowing you some of their suggestions, comments, (including mine) may be off the mark. In this case though it truly is the intention (and PR and action especially on your part) that counts in the end. Be gracious!

j) Persist politely in all your contacts: try repeat interviews or requests for same, repeat successfull actions, etc....

k) Offer or request someone to offer a REWARD(s) for the safe return (NO QUESTIONS asked) for the VC especially but ideally the 3 medal grouping

l) Give brief talks to your local schools again as a) measure of pr and B) to keep your own morale up by doing good out of something bad

m) Remember: Keep your chin up mate!

John

Toronto,

Canada

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Unknownsoldier
Ok sorry for my out burst... But just because I comment on here does not mean I am sitting on my hands... a lot of people have have been help me and advising me

via p.m's

A wallet of mine was also stolen also!

Granada Reports are coming tomorrow

The Sun Newspaper are involved with some help... and may visit tomorrow

that's all I can tell you at the moment.. so please its a difficult time as it is with out the silly comments..thanks to the other guys who are helping

No worries, hope all goes well.

Tom

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dave hanks

Phil, mate, nothing at the car boots. Sorry....!

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