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Lt Molloy, 9th Tank Battalion, 23/7/18


Chief_Chum

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This is a long shot but I was wondering if any of you Tank Corps fans could tell me the number of the Tank which was commanded by Lt Molloy of the 9th (I) Tank Battalion, in action with the French, on 23rd July 1917?

Cheers,

Taff

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Taff

Should there be an absence of the answer you could get to see what the War Diary for this unit has to say. WO95/107 runs from Aug 1917 to Nov 1919.

Sotonmate

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Thanks for that. If no one pops up with the elusive info I will get down to Kew and do as you suggest.

Thanks again.

Cheers,

Taff

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Hi

Have you got the correct year??

17tankman

Doh! Sorry Tankman, that should, of course, be 1918.

Thanks for pointing that out.

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Sorry - very few names of 9 Bn commanders from 1918 in my databases, which suggests the War Diary won't help either.

Good hunting nevertheless.

Gwyn

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Thanks Gwyn.

As you suggest, I suspect that the info has long since gone but still worth trying. I am trying to help my business partner identify the Tank as his Grandfather was killed driving it on that day.

Cheers,

Taff

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Thanks Gwyn.

If it helps, Kev's Grandfather was A.J. Tabor (formerly of The Cambridgeshire Regt):

Name: TABOR

Initials: A J

Nationality: United Kingdom

Rank: Private

Regiment/Service: Tank Corps

Unit Text: 9th Bn.

Age: 24

Date of Death: 23/07/1918

Service No: 92958

Additional information: Son of James and Jane Tabor; husband of Florence E. Tabor, of High St., Cherry Hinton, Cambridge. Born at Cherry Hinton.

Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead

Grave/Memorial Reference: IV. F. 5.

Cemetery: ROYE NEW BRITISH CEMETERY

Thanks

Taff

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The best I can do is to direct you to this website. This has been compiled by a friend, Rob Martin, who has very painstakingly pieced together an account of the action from original sources. It won't give you the answer, but it will identify possibilities and point you at the original records. Note that 2/Lt M Molloy (Malloy according to the website - but this comes from a transcription of the War Diary so may not be accurate if the original is hard to read) was wounded in action so if this is our man then we're looking for a tank that suffered at least one crewman killed and the officer wounded. Amongst the possibilities then appear to be tanks 9064, 9049 and 9394. There may be others - I suggest you go through Rob's work with a toothcomb! In any case doing too much of the research for you will deny you the enjoyment!

Hope this helps.

Gwyn

http://sites.google.com/site/landships/9-b...on-23-july-1918

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Thank you Gwyn,

That is fantastic! I will enjoy trawling through the site and will pass the details on to Kev.

Thanks again.

WIth best wishes,

Taff

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Success!

With the details from Rob's website, and two letters sent to his Grandmother, Kev has, at last, nailed down the Tank his Grandfather was driving when he was killed:

"9049, m, Did not reach objective. Little opposition met, case shot fired and proved useful causing a large number of enemy to surrender. Suffered a Direct hit. 1 Crewman killed. OIC and 3 Crewmen wounded."

Thanks to all of you for your help. Proof, once again, that the GWF is the place to track down the untrackable...

Cheers,

Taff

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Excellent - and you've just helped me, because until this thread we didn't know that 2/Lt Molloy and Pte Tabor were in 9049.

Gwyn :D

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  • 2 weeks later...

Sorry to put a spanner in the conclusion but the medal rolls state Talbot as Died of Wounds not KIA so may not be correct tank. Was there anything in the letters that help pin it down.

There are other drivers who were KIA at the same time.

Hope I am wrong

!7tankman

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Hi Tankman,

Pte Tabor was taken off by French medics to a French Dressing station where he died. He was the only British soldier in that cemetery until he was moved post-war.

Kev says that, according to Rob's website, there was no other Tank which it could have been. The letters to his Grandmother tie down the number of casualties. I have asked Kev if he can dig the letters out and scan them in and post them here.

Earlier in the day there had been another action when another crew member, Henry Tynan, had been killed. One of his relatives was asking about him on here a while ago.

Cheers,

Taff

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Taff

These are the soldiers Killed on 23/07/1918 with 9th TC

75812PteRGrindlayKIA 23/07/191878033L/CplR JWardKIA 23/07/191878040PteE EToplissKIA 23/07/191878047L/CplWWilsonKIA 23/07/191878116PteTCottonKIA 23/07/191878559PteJDuncanKIA 23/07/191878978PteF GWarringtonKIA 23/07/191891240PteE HScarlettKIA 23/07/191891385PteH WHuntKIA 23/07/191891574PteH JShelfordKIA 23/07/191891390PteE JBrownKIA 23/07/191891918PteTDaviesKIA 23/07/191891925PteJ BStewartKIA 23/07/191891933PteH RTymanKIA 23/07/191891934PteTForsterKIA 23/07/191891948PteHMorrisKIA 23/07/191892261PteR LOatesKIA 23/07/191892958PteA JTaborKIA 23/07/191895072PteJ ABuchananKIA 23/07/1918201609PteABlackwellKIA 23/07/1918306070PteGGibsonKIA 23/07/1918

So you can see alot and also alot of officers wounded and killed.

17tankman

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  • 4 years later...

Taff

I hope this is the right place to add this information.

My grandfather was killed in this action and I have been trying to find out as much as possible about the officers and soldiers involved. The CWGC have just released archive information showing that Privates Tabor and Lewis from C Company, 9th Battalion Tank Corps, killed on 23/7/18, were first buried in the French Military Cemetery at Berny -sur-Noye. This suggests that Lt Molloy's Tank may not be number 9049 which was either A or B Company according to the Landships site.

Regards

David

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Although an old posting I see this is not yet resolved ?

From Martin's website, these appear to be the casualties.

3 Officers killed

2Lt M Malloy + 9 officers wounded.

A&B COMPANY

9406 1 Crewman killed

9387 OIC & 3 Crewmen wounded

9025 1 Crewman wounded, 2 Crewmen missing

9064 2 Crewmen killed, OIC wounded, 3 Crewmen missing

9344 1 Crewman wounded

9049 1 Crewman killed, OIC wounded, 3 Crewmen wounded

9347 1 Crewman killed, 1 Crewman missing

9057 4 Crewmen wounded

9321 4 Crewmen wounded, 1 Crewman missing

C COMPANY

9394 2 Crewmen killed, OIC wounded, 4 Crewmen wounded

9021 2 Crewmen killed 4 Crewmen wounded

9434 OIC killed 1 Crewman killed 1 Crewman wounded

9337 1 Crewman killed, 2OIC killed 1 Crewman killed

9339 OIC killed 2 Crewmen killed

9408 4 Crewmen killed OIC wounded 2 Crewmen wounded.

From the letters we know he served under Malloy who was wounded so that reduces the options to :-

A&B COMPANY

9387 OIC wounded, 3 Crewmen wounded

9064 2 Crewmen killed, OIC wounded, 3 Crewmen missing

9049 1 Crewman killed, OIC wounded, 3 Crewmen wounded

C COMPANY

9394 2 Crewmen killed, OIC wounded, 4 Crewmen wounded

9408 4 Crewmen killed, OIC wounded 2 Crewmen wounded

If he is registered as DoW he is likely to be noted in the battle reports as wounded rather than killed, albeit he died the same day, as 17Tankman suggests.

The letter was presumably written to the widow/parents by the OIC ? with knowledge that Tabor had since died of his wounds from that action ?

You suggest that the letters say OIC wounded, 1 killed and 3 wounded, which if correct I agree means 9049, except for the new info suggesting C Company !

However based on the DoW classification this would mean he was one of the 3 wounded not the one killed, which would presumably then conflict with the letters and the Company info as there is no such combination in C Company !

Still need sight of the letters to see if we can resolve this one !

Edited by Geoffrey Churcher
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  • 2 months later...

Although an old posting I see this is not yet resolved ?

From Martin's website, these appear to be the casualties.

3 Officers killed

2Lt M Malloy + 9 officers wounded.

A&B COMPANY

9406 1 Crewman killed

9387 OIC & 3 Crewmen wounded

9025 1 Crewman wounded, 2 Crewmen missing

9064 2 Crewmen killed, OIC wounded, 3 Crewmen missing

9344 1 Crewman wounded

9049 1 Crewman killed, OIC wounded, 3 Crewmen wounded

9347 1 Crewman killed, 1 Crewman missing

9057 4 Crewmen wounded

9321 4 Crewmen wounded, 1 Crewman missing

C COMPANY

9394 2 Crewmen killed, OIC wounded, 4 Crewmen wounded

9021 2 Crewmen killed 4 Crewmen wounded

9434 OIC killed 1 Crewman killed 1 Crewman wounded

9337 1 Crewman killed, 2OIC killed 1 Crewman killed

9339 OIC killed 2 Crewmen killed

9408 4 Crewmen killed OIC wounded 2 Crewmen wounded.

From the letters we know he served under Malloy who was wounded so that reduces the options to :-

A&B COMPANY

9387 OIC wounded, 3 Crewmen wounded

9064 2 Crewmen killed, OIC wounded, 3 Crewmen missing

9049 1 Crewman killed, OIC wounded, 3 Crewmen wounded

C COMPANY

9394 2 Crewmen killed, OIC wounded, 4 Crewmen wounded

9408 4 Crewmen killed, OIC wounded 2 Crewmen wounded

If he is registered as DoW he is likely to be noted in the battle reports as wounded rather than killed, albeit he died the same day, as 17Tankman suggests.

The letter was presumably written to the widow/parents by the OIC ? with knowledge that Tabor had since died of his wounds from that action ?

You suggest that the letters say OIC wounded, 1 killed and 3 wounded, which if correct I agree means 9049, except for the new info suggesting C Company !

However based on the DoW classification this would mean he was one of the 3 wounded not the one killed, which would presumably then conflict with the letters and the Company info as there is no such combination in C Company !

Still need sight of the letters to see if we can resolve this one !

HiI am new to the forum and would like your help and expertise. Currently I am reserching greater personal detailsof thos whoare remebered on the Cenotaph here in Waltham NE Lincs I saw one man mentioned who died on 23rd July 1918 Ernest Edward Topliss 78040 who lived in waltahm. How can you determin which tank he was in and where he was killed. Forgive me for this I am very new to this but would appreciate any help on offer. As I live in the village and feel all should now be more than a name. Many thanks for reading this.

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Taff

These are the soldiers Killed on 23/07/1918 with 9th TC

75812PteRGrindlayKIA 23/07/191878033L/CplR JWardKIA 23/07/191878040PteE EToplissKIA 23/07/191878047L/CplWWilsonKIA 23/07/191878116PteTCottonKIA 23/07/191878559PteJDuncanKIA 23/07/191878978PteF GWarringtonKIA 23/07/191891240PteE HScarlettKIA 23/07/191891385PteH WHuntKIA 23/07/191891574PteH JShelfordKIA 23/07/191891390PteE JBrownKIA 23/07/191891918PteTDaviesKIA 23/07/191891925PteJ BStewartKIA 23/07/191891933PteH RTymanKIA 23/07/191891934PteTForsterKIA 23/07/191891948PteHMorrisKIA 23/07/191892261PteR LOatesKIA 23/07/191892958PteA JTaborKIA 23/07/191895072PteJ ABuchananKIA 23/07/1918201609PteABlackwellKIA 23/07/1918306070PteGGibsonKIA 23/07/1918

So you can see alot and also alot of officers wounded and killed.

17tankman

HiI am new to the forum and would like your help and expertise. Currently I am researching greater personal detailsof those who are remembered on the Cenotaph here in Waltham NE Lincs I saw one man mentioned who died on 23rd July 1918 Ernest Edward Topliss 78040 who lived in Waltahm. How can you determin which tank he was in and where he was killed. Forgive me for this I am very new to this but would appreciate any help on offer. As I live in the village and feel all should now be more than a name. Many thanks for reading this.

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HiI am new to the forum and would like your help and expertise. Currently I am reserching greater personal detailsof thos whoare remebered on the Cenotaph here in Waltham NE Lincs I saw one man mentioned who died on 23rd July 1918 Ernest Edward Topliss 78040 who lived in waltahm. How can you determin which tank he was in and where he was killed. Forgive me for this I am very new to this but would appreciate any help on offer. As I live in the village and feel all should now be more than a name. Many thanks for reading this.

Welcome to the Forum. As you can see from this thread we have been struggling with a similar question. The four digt numbers starting 9 you see are the tank serial numbers and are unique to each individual tank. Your man may have been killed in any of the tanks where there was at least one crewman killed, but unfortunately that doesn't whittle it down much.

Gwyn

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I have the same problem and Gwyn is right.

I looked up Ernest Edward Topliss on Ancestry and found a French certification of his death, which was attributed to the "Health Services" (a rough translation) of the 272nd French Infantry Regiment. This suggests, but doesn't confirm, that E E Topliss was in "C" Company of the 9th Battalion. Even if "C" Company is correct, this unfortunately still leaves seven tank possibilities.

I think the only way forward is to try and see if you can get any correspondence that the Topliss family received which might help to narrow down the possibilities. Otherwise I fear it will be hard to find out what happened.

David

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I attach part of Topliss's French death certification and wondered if anyone could any ideas re the middle section which I think is meant to be his designation. For once the writing is legible, but apart from the Tank Corps Service number, it seems to be meaningless.

David

post-108666-0-75927600-1414602621_thumb.

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I think now that the centre section of the French death certification is a transcription from Topliss's identity disk (not sure if that is the right technical term) and that the first part means "78040 Gunner Heavy Branch Machine Gun Corps", accepting that it is easy to mistake a G for a C. This leaves WFS???

I couldn't find Topliss's service record, but that of a near service number, Charles Duncan Sagar 78049 Tank Corps, does exist. He was transferred from the Army Cyclists Corps to I Battalion in November 1916 when it was formed. It was then known as the 5th Battalion Machine Gun Corps (Heavy Branch).

David

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