UK graveyard memorials to the fallen

[NigelS]

As I'm sure have many other Pals, I've often come across inscriptions to the fallen who are either buried or officially (CWGC) commemorated elsewhere which have been included on the grave headstones and memorials of relatives. As an example, in East Molesey Cemetery the grave of Robert Cleminson also carries this inscription (together with the crest of the E. Yorks Regt) to his son (also Robert):

Also

In Ever Loving Memory of

Robert Cleminson,

2nd Lieut, East Yorkshire Regiment.

Who fell in action at Lille Valley, France.

Septr. 28th 1916, Aged 18 years.

For King and Country

His CWGC record:

Name: CLEMINSON, ROBERT

Initials: R

Nationality: United Kingdom

Rank: Second Lieutenant

Regiment/Service: East Yorkshire Regiment

Unit Text: 3rd Bn. attd. 1st Bn.

Date of Death: 25/09/1916

Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead

Grave/Memorial Reference: Pier and Face 2 C.

Memorial: THIEPVAL MEMORIAL

(NB the date of Cleminson's death given on the memorial, when compared with that given by the CWGC (& SDGW), is different)

I've often thought that the existence of a private memorial of this type might be of interest to others, and possibly in some small way might assist in research, so I'm wondering if a dedicated thread - I don't think one exists already - which records the details of these might be worthwhile as it's, at least in the majority of cases, unlikely to be recorded elsewhere. The information would at least then be available, and (hopefully) could be found by anyone carrying out an appropriate search.

If this is thought to be a sound idea, please feel free to continue adding details of this type of memorial to this thread

NigelS

[NeilEvans]

Nigel,

That's not a bad idea. I have over 400 from Shropshire and another 100 from other locations.

Neil

This one always sticks out in my mind.

[Michael Pegum]

As I'm sure have many other Pals, I've often come across inscriptions to the fallen who are either buried or officially (CWGC) commemorated elsewhere which have been included on the grave headstones and memorials of relatives.

...............................................

If this is thought to be a sound idea, please feel free to continue adding details of this type of memorial to this thread

NigelS

Surely these can be added to the U. K. National Inventory of War Memorials?

Michael

[NigelS]

Surely these can be added to the U. K. National Inventory of War Memorials?

I stand to be corrected, but I don't believe that it has ever been the intention of the UKNIWM to include individual commemorations, maybe it should, but it would make a lot more work for them.

NigelS

[Michael Pegum]

I stand to be corrected, but I don't believe that it has ever been the intention of the UKNIWM to include individual commemorations, maybe it should, but it would make a lot more work for them.

NigelS

In fact, it does, and it accepts this type of memorial, too, as "Addition to gravestone". There are 3,512 such records on their database at present.

Michael

[auchonvillerssomme]

Nigel, the NIofWM has individual inscriptions and welcomes them. So far there are over 3500 additions recorded.

Mick

Great minds and both called Michael!!

[Andy Wade]

THe UKNIWM question is something I've been looking at as I have many examples of individual family memorials to men buried overseas.

I have noticed that as more of these are added, that the search engine is of course picking them up and you have to be very careful how you use the UKNIWM search engine or you'll end up with hundreds of hits.

I have so many that I'm going to suggest the UKNIWM create a form for people to fill in and submit for inclusion along with pictures of the memorials.

I fear that time will be a big factor in whether or not they can do that though.

[NeilEvans]

I find myselft agreeing with Andy. A good as the UKNIWM is at the moment there search engine isn't the best.

Perhaps an independant site could work.

Neil

[Michael Pegum]

I have so many that I'm going to suggest the UKNIWM create a form for people to fill in and submit for inclusion along with pictures of the memorials.

They do exactly that! See How to help

My own website, covering Ireland, uses a form based largely on the one designed by the U.K.N.I.W.M., with the advantage that it can be downloaded.

Michael

[NigelS]

I stand corrected!

NigelS

[Andy Wade]

I stand corrected!

NigelS

Me too, I'm putting on my orthopaedic shoes as soon as I've typed this...

(with thanks to Groucho Marx)

[Ghost]

What about a CWGC headstone which commemorates two brothers. Are there many about?

Alan

[joseph]

Hi,

Here is a photo of one I took some 5 years ago not a sign of it now, Hull Western Cemetery, Private Eddie Davison 26579 East Yorkshire Regiment.

Regards Charles

[Ghost]

It would be easier if an update form similar in format to that used by the FBMD site was used, and that the inclusion of images was possible. A display of the memorials like that on Michaels Irish memorials website would not go amiss either, but then I suppose the project has to generate money somehow.

Alan

[Michael Pegum]

A display of the memorials like that on Michaels Irish memorials website would not go amiss either, but then I suppose the project has to generate money somehow.

Alan

I don't quite understand this but, to avoid a possible misunderstanding, the Irish war memorials website does not generate any money. Photographs of all of the memorials appear on the site and are free of copyright. If any are used in publications (and quite a few have been), acknowledgement of the source is appreciated. Much larger image files of almost all of the photographs can be supplied free on request. It used to be all of them but, would you believe it, I had a hard disk failure!

Michael

[Ghost]

Michael,

The meaning I had meant to convey was that it would be nice if the UKNIWM posted pictures like your site, but they don't.

Refering to "project has to generate money somehow." This was my mistake, but did not insinuate in any way that your site generated money. I confused the UKINWM with the War Graves Photograhic project, where an administrative donation is payable prior to the posting of any images without a copright mark.

Alan

[DMcNay]

The Scottish War Graves Projects records these graves in Scotland.

[geoff2050]

Dewsbury Cemetery holds a few memorials to soldiers of WW1.

I would be willing to collect this information if requested .

Geoff

[Michael Pegum]

Michael,

The meaning I had meant to convey was that it would be nice if the UKNIWM posted pictures like your site, but they don't.

Refering to "project has to generate money somehow." This was my mistake, but did not insinuate in any way that your site generated money. I confused the UKINWM with the War Graves Photograhic project, where an administrative donation is payable prior to the posting of any images without a copright mark.

Alan

Thanks, Alan.

Michael

[Guest jfurlong]

Dear All

I just wanted to add the voice of UKNIWM to this discussion which I hope will be of help. I see that some of the questions have been answered so I'll deal with the rest.

Our search engine: No it is not the best I admit. However, IWM is going to be revamping its website and we will probably becoming a much more integrated part of it. As part of that we will be looking at the search functionality so I will come to people like your good selves to see what your search needs are when we are at that stage of the redevelopment so we can improve it. You have been warned!

Adding images: This has always been one of our development plans but it wasn't until last September that we have finally had the time and resources (actually, a very capable work placement student) to begin adding the digital images we have been sent which we have copyright permission to use. Whilst we do not yet have every image up there we are making progress and some of our technically trained fieldworkers are also beginning to add their own images. So you should start to see more being uploaded.

Individual commemoration: We record any memorial that has been erected in the UK, be they to an individual (usually erected by the person's family), the community group (funded by the community), a military unit or even animals. Indeed, we would be derelict in our duty if we did not include them as we couldn't claim to be building up a comprehensive archive about the war memorials in the UK. Additions to headstones are an important part of this as they quite literally took the place of the grave for a family and provided a personal space for remembrance. The more you start looking, the more you find. I came across one when I was only glancing around a graveyard in Ham on Sunday.

I've always said this is a job for life....even in these austere times.

I'm going to be updating our project development progress page shortly so you can find out more about all our plans - and we have lots!

Best

Jane

(UKNIWM Project Coordinator)

[Boreenatra]

Within our ECP (Essex Commemoration Project) we have named these types of memorials to those who are buried elsewhere "Commemoratives" because that's exactly what they are, rather than use terms such as "red names" and other monikers which seem to somehow trivialise the memory of those who have fallen and the memorials that the families had erected in their memory somehow less valid.

There also is a point that these Commemoratives very often give a great deal of information about families and are invaluable where no final verification was given to the authorities

As war memorials commemorate people who have died elsewhere, I think Commemorative memorials should have some comparative status...............any thoughts ?

One last thought is that it makes tramping through a cemetery or churchyard that much more interesting as you never know what you may come across.

Regards

Steve

[keithmroberts]

This memorial lies in the churchyard of St Luke's Parish Church, Eccleshill, Bradford. The two sons do not appear on the brass memorial inside the church.

Keith

[GrahamC]

What a coincidence - I have just returned from visiting the grave of a young Marine who was killed in Afghanistan last month, and who was buried a few days ago in our local Cemetery (Buxton, Derbyshire) in the CWG plot.

On the way out I noticed this memorial cross to Captain Geoffrey Yate Heald, 15th Bn. Lancashire Fusiliers, who fell on the first day of the Somme and is buried in Lonsdale Cemetery, Grave V.E.1. As you can see it is resting on the gravestone of William Heald also Sarah Ann (His parents).

Capt. Heald is not on our local Town Memorial and his parents lived in Manchester - so must have moved here to retire, maybe. If anyone knows anything about this Officer, who died aged 20, I would be pleased to hear.

Edited 6 August , 2010 by GrahamC