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Lovats' Scouts in WW1; sources?


headgardener

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Does anyone have any suggestions regarding archives, histories, biographies or any other sources on the Lovats Scouts during WW1?

I'm interested in general information on life in the regiment, movements, and actions that they fought (including their later incarnation as 10th Bn, Cameron Highlanders). I'm also looking for any possible archival sources of biographical information (regimental record books and the like).

Archives; I'm assuming that they're in the museum at Fort George, but does anyone know their extent or quality? Are there likely to be any other archives anywhere else?

Newspapers; I've searched the Inverness Courier, has anyone come across any other papers that had good coverage for the L.S.'s?

Books; Anyone know any histories, biographies, etc that would be applicable (I already have the rather brief chapter or 2 from 'History of the Lovats' Scouts' by Melville, also I have the various regimental details (brigades, etc) from James.

I'm doing a war memorial project for a village in the north of Scotland; about 6 casualties and about 8 non-casualties from the L.S.'s. I already have CWGC/SDGW/de Ruvigny for all bar 1 of the men. The remaining guy is a bit of a mystery (late post-war addition to the memorial), but I intend to post about him seperately.

So, any thoughts?

Edit; There's also a Lovats' Scouts man on the memorial from WW2, kia in Italy in '44, any thoughts gratefully received.

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There was a small number of men who served in Lord Lovats Scouts in the Boer War, who enlisted in the CEF in Canada during WW1. One, Major Alexander Grant, was awarded the DSO, and KIA in 1918. If this is of interest, let me know, and I will forward what I have.

Cheers, Jim

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Hi Jim; May well come back to you on it, but just looking for 'background' info at the moment - stuff about training, movements, actions, that sort of thing - to help me flesh out the biog's of the men on the local memorial. None of them served in the Boer war, to the best of my knowledge. I have a couple of local casualties who served with the CEF and who had previously served with the local Cameron Highrs Volunteers/TF pre-war.

Poppy, thanks for pointing that out. Very helpful indeed.

Thanks again, both of you.

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Books; Anyone know any histories, biographies, etc that would be applicable (I already have the rather brief chapter or 2 from 'History of the Lovats' Scouts' by Melville, also I have the various regimental details (brigades, etc) from James.

HG,

Melville's book is the only history of the regiment that I am aware of. It is an informative read but agree that it could be more detailed. Melville indicates in the authors notes and acknowledgements that he drew upon the Regimental Association, the research of a Dr Allan Fraser and the notes and diaries of some old scouts. I'd suggest it might be worth containing the museum or Regimental Assocition (if they still exist?) to see if some of these references are available.

There is a book by Barlow that appears occasionally on e-bay on the Lovat's Scouts/Scottish Horse as part of a Yeomanry Uniform series. I don't know how informative it is as I bail out at as the price escalates.

Forum member Marina20 provided that excellent list of references that has been referred to.

I'd be interested in anything you find, particularly regarding Salonika.

Regards,

Scott

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headgardener said:
Books; Anyone know any histories, biographies, etc that would be applicable (I already have the rather brief chapter or 2 from 'History of the Lovats' Scouts' by Melville, also I have the various regimental details (brigades, etc) from James.

Hi

I assume you have the War Diaries from te National Archives (available online). The Highland Mounted Bde Gallipoli diary runs for 53 pages, 1st/1st Loat's Scouts 26 pages and 1st/2nd Lovat Scouts for 11 pages and are all reasonably well written.

There is a book: "The Sword of the North: Highland Memories of the Great War" by Dugald MacEchern that has a chapter on Lovat Scouts. Published in Inverness: Robert Carruther & Sons, "Courier" Office 1923. I have not seen this book. The source comes from "A Bibliography of Regimental Histories of the British Army" compiled by Arthur S White.

The Lovat Scouts were famous in Gallipoli for the assault on an enemy strong point in Azmak Dere Barricade on 17th October. It was successful and subsequently named "The Highland Barricade". Lt I Forsyth-Grant died of wounds (19th Oct) received during the reconnaissance prior to this action. The 1st/2nd Lovat Scouts lost 1 killed and 3 wounded in this action. The 1st/1st Lovat's Scouts reported 2 killed and 6 wounded (perhaps from the whole force which included the Fife & Fofar Yeo) and 12 Turks killed and 2 captured. This episode is also referred to in Capt Wedgewood Benn's "In the Side Shows" p 40 when he talks of the Lovat's Scouts 'spirited attack on the Turk stronghold and also of the friendly rivalry between the Scottish Horse and the Lovat's Scouts.

There is an interesting anecdote attributed to the Lovat Scouts from some of the other Yeomanry Regiments at Suvla Bay in Gallipoli. This one from the Derbyshire Yeomanry War History 1914-1919: "...On the night of the 28th we were waiting about expecting to receive the order to attack, having received the sand-bags that afternoon, when a lucky chance knocked the whole thing on the Head..... About 9 pm loud cheers were suddenly heard from the trenches held by the Lovat's Scouts, who were on our right. No one had time to wonder what it meant, as almost simultaneously a terrific rifle and machine-gun fire broke out from the enemy trenches. At the same time tow large bonfires which had been prepared by the enemy in the thick scrub of No Man's Land were lit, and the enemy artillery opened up a heavy fire of shrapnel and HE. This, curiously enough was directed at the very spot at which we were to have left the trench, and was very accurate indeed. This was the only occasion on which I knew the enemy to use their guns at night. ..... The fire continued for 45 minutes and gradually died away, the Turk, I presume being confident that he had annihilated everything living in the open as he undoubtedly would have done. After this the attack was definitely "off", it being apparent that the trenches had been held as we always thought, in great force.

....What started the cheering? Some wag suggested that a Scotchman had found sixpence in a dead man's pocket. I believe this is an aspersion on the race, and that the real reason was the arrival of news of our opening success at Neuve Chapelle, and the capture of 7,000 German prisoners...... Whatever the cause, we were grateful for it". [NB I note the the Lovat Scouts only arrived the night before and I have seen this story attributed to the "Scottish Horse" in the South Notts Hussars War diary so you may want to research this more...I note the 2nd/1st Scottish Horse records giving "... 3 cheers on the good news received from the Western Front..." but this does not preclude the Lovat's Scouts from doing the same]

There are occasional mentions of the Lovat Scouts in the various Yeomary War Diaries as they relieved trenches.

Regards

Guest

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Books; Anyone know any histories, biographies, etc that would be applicable (I already have the rather brief chapter or 2 from 'History of the Lovats' Scouts' by Melville, also I have the various regimental details (brigades, etc) from James.

If you join the Gallipoli Association you can access the archives of their periodical The Gallipolian. Issue 101 has an article on a John Fraser of the Lovat Scouts written by his daughter Sheila Fraser in 2003. Issue 74 also has an article on the Lovat's Scouts but it looks like a cut-and-paste job from the history (same author).

MG

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Hi Martin, and thanks for your very helpful posts.

I will definately be following up these suggestions, including the one regarding the Gallipoli Association.

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  • 2 weeks later...

There is a short bibliography listed on this site http://sites.google.com/site/lovatscouts/bibliography

Does anyone have any suggestions regarding archives, histories, biographies or any other sources on the Lovats Scouts during WW1?

I'm interested in general information on life in the regiment, movements, and actions that they fought (including their later incarnation as 10th Bn, Cameron Highlanders). I'm also looking for any possible archival sources of biographical information (regimental record books and the like).

Archives; I'm assuming that they're in the museum at Fort George, but does anyone know their extent or quality? Are there likely to be any other archives anywhere else?

Newspapers; I've searched the Inverness Courier, has anyone come across any other papers that had good coverage for the L.S.'s?

Books; Anyone know any histories, biographies, etc that would be applicable (I already have the rather brief chapter or 2 from 'History of the Lovats' Scouts' by Melville, also I have the various regimental details (brigades, etc) from James.

I'm doing a war memorial project for a village in the north of Scotland; about 6 casualties and about 8 non-casualties from the L.S.'s. I already have CWGC/SDGW/de Ruvigny for all bar 1 of the men. The remaining guy is a bit of a mystery (late post-war addition to the memorial), but I intend to post about him seperately.

So, any thoughts?

Edit; There's also a Lovats' Scouts man on the memorial from WW2, kia in Italy in '44, any thoughts gratefully received.

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...Consider yourself lucky. I am in the process of thinning out my library and have a copy of Melville that I would like to get rid of. You can have it for postage and handling.

Drop me a line if your are interested.

DrB

:thumbsup:

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  • 8 years later...

Hi there.

My father, Robert Watson, from Dysart, born 1925, carried out his army induction training at Fort George thereafter joining the Lovat Scouts. I believe he was sent to Canada to learn mountaineering before being sent to the foot of the Alps in Italy. Later on he must have been in Greece as I have picture of him fully kitted out in fr t of the Parthenon. But that’s it. Like most of the older generation he never spoke of his service but I would like to learn more of what he did so I can pass it on to my grandchildren before it’s too late.

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  • Admin

I’m afraid that as he was born in 1925, his history will be outside the remit of this forum, which is for WW1. 

 

Michelle, on behalf of the admin team 

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  • 4 months later...
On 07/06/2019 at 18:53, Keith Watson said:

Hi there.

My father, Robert Watson, from Dysart, born 1925, carried out his army induction training at Fort George thereafter joining the Lovat Scouts. I believe he was sent to Canada to learn mountaineering before being sent to the foot of the Alps in Italy. Later on he must have been in Greece as I have picture of him fully kitted out in fr t of the Parthenon. But that’s it. Like most of the older generation he never spoke of his service but I would like to learn more of what he did so I can pass it on to my grandchildren before it’s too late.

Hi, in WW2 the Lovat Scouts were deployed to the Faroe Islands initially after giving up their beloved horses...(where they shot down a German Henkel 111 with a Bren gun and captured the crew who thought they had been hit by flak) and yes mountain training in  Canada, but then sent to heavy fighting with castualties at Monte Cassino 1944 where my grand father was injured. He was one of the Uistmen who rode to Inverness (Beauly) on highland ponies to join the war. Sorry off topic from Ww1 but I too would like to find out more about the Lovat scouts story and specifically the Gaelic sharpshooters of the western Isles in Ww2 (and ww1) including Angus McPhee the "Silent weaver"

 

Edited by Marram
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Marram,

 

Melville's book covers WW2 and mentions the downing of the Heinkel.

 

You could try WW2Talk as well.

 

Scott

Edited by Waddell
Added more.
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Thanks for the reply Scott. I've found a copy of Melville's book on eBay today, going to give it a read and also see what I can find in the Fort George museum and Highland Ambaile archives as I'm sure there were some recordings of an interview with a Ww2 Lovat Scout (I stumbled across a small clip of a section of it a few years ago) it would be interesting to see if there is more.

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Sorry I won't post anymore on Ww2 Lovat Scout history. I also have family who served in the Lovat Scouts in WW1 so have an interest in there also, but the details are a bit more foggy. I just thought Keith's post for some information on his family history merited a reply. Apologies for going slightly off piste.

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  • 4 years later...

I recently saw a reference to  the following book published in 2022.

The Memoirs of a Lovat Scout in World War 1 by Sgt. Angus MacLennan edited by Katherine De Jonckheere

Product details

Publisher ‏ : ‎ Biddles Books (3 Feb. 2022)

Hardcover ‏ : ‎ 210 pages

ISBN-10 ‏ : ‎ 1915292107

ISBN-13 ‏ : ‎ 978-1915292100

Further details https://shophldrs.com/product/the-memoirs-of-a-lovat-scout-in-ww1/ Highland Museum Shop. 

Angus MacLennan a pre and post-war Lovat Scout writes in detail from the commencement of World War 1 until it’s close. He brings to life the everyday experiences and camaraderie of the men in the Regiment he was proud to serve with. He takes the reader in detail from the peaceful shores of England to the fly infested hills of Gallipoli, where he survived being struck by lightening, before moving on to the burning heat of Egypt and from there on to the malaria plains of Salonika where he was reported as missing and dead. Finally he takes the reader to France where he and his fellow Scouts worked as Observers and Mappers.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/296312446883, archived link https://web.archive.org/save/https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/296312446883

Maureen

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