Memorial Tablet found on Ebay

[Fred W]

Brett

Why don't you try contacting the local Wigan newspaper and ask them to put a photo of the plaque in one of their issues, someone might recognize it.

Fred

[nicko576]

I remember this thread from the end of last year. It was as Keith says in the Lancashire and Yorkshire Loco sheds.

Which were situated around Wallgate station, I am not 100% certain but I think the land is now a car park.

Nick

[jwp2007]

this is a link to the lancashire and yorkshire railway society which may be useful, there is also a downloadable copy of the roll of honour (no places of work listed on this one) which the company gave to families of the fallen.

http://www.lyrs.org.uk/index.html

regards, John.

[MartinWills]

I assume that they are all also named on the large L & Y Rly memorial at Manchester Victoria Station - one, to my mind, of the more impressive memorials.

[rollofhonour]

Came late to the party but I'd love this one for the Roll of Honour site. The St Paul's Cathedral Service in Memory of Railwaymen lists the majority of these men as Yorkshire and Lancashire Railway:

APPLEBY Sidney Private. Cleaner, Lancashire and Yorkshire Railway.

BROWN W Driver. Cleaner, Lancashire and Yorkshire Railway.

GREGORY J S Gunner. Weigher, Lancashire and Yorkshire Railway.

HENSHAW J Bombardier. Cleaner, Lancashire and Yorkshire Railway.

LYONS A Private. Labourer, Lancashire and Yorkshire Railway.

REGAN A E Private. Cleaner, Lancashire and Yorkshire Railway.

READ F Private

SMITH D Private. Fireman, Lancashire and Yorkshire Railway.

TALBOT W Sergeant. Coalman, Lancashire and Yorkshire Railway.

WOODCOCK A Private. Fireman, Lancashire and Yorkshire Railway.

Died from the effect of war service

GREEN F Ex-Private

HENSHAW is listsed as J not A...

I'll try and put this on-line like previous ones...

[rollofhonour]

Forgot to ask if it was okay to use the photos for the web site?

[brett361975]

Update -

Firstly may I thank one and all for the valuable information you have provided, you have all done these men a great justice in helping to piece together their lives.

I have contacted the Yorkshire and Lancashire Railway in the hope that they will be able to give a definitive answer to the exact location of the Depot HOPEFULLY with some photographs.

my next step is to find as much information as possible from the Wigan newspapers about these mens service and sad demise.

I will then collate all the information and put it together in book form so that hopefully it will remain with and tell the story of this Memorial plaque.

I'm then hoping to possibly loan it to the Yorkshire and Lancashire Railway so that it may be displayed for all to see.

If anyone should come across any more information regarding this plaque or the fallen men I would very much appreciate you adding it to this thread.

Memorial man I very much look forward to seeing these names added to you site.

Once again thank you all

Regards

Brett

[rollofhonour]

The memorial is on-line at:

http://www.roll-of-honour.com/Lancashire/W...ateStation.html

Any corrections welcomed....

[June Underwood]

Using Geoffs Search Engine could the W Brown be Pte W Brown 332616 The Kings (Liverpool Regiment) aged 29 died 4/5/1919 buried Wigan Cemetery I.R.C.773 son of James Brown of Wigan. Husband of Annie Brown of 300 Wallgate Wigan

There were also 2 other W Browns of Wigan

June

[rollofhonour]

Using Geoffs Search Engine could the W Brown be Pte W Brown 332616 The Kings (Liverpool Regiment) aged 29 died 4/5/1919 buried Wigan Cemetery I.R.C.773 son of James Brown of Wigan. Husband of Annie Brown of 300 Wallgate Wigan

There were also 2 other W Browns of Wigan

June

Thanks... I'll include that..

[jwp2007]

There was a wigan l&Y shed situated near wallgate i think, it had the british railways shed code 27D, closed in 1964 and demolished around 1966, there

is a pic in BR days on the link below :

http://www.lqqk.co.uk/album/photo.php?opt=...y&offset=80

regards, John.

[brett361975]

Just had a quick look at the Wigan burials, could this man be our EX PTE F Green who died of the effects of war service ?

Green Fred 29 yrs 3 Millstone Yd. Wigan Lane Died 02-Jan 1923 plot M 222 religion C of E

The plaque was made in 1923 - so F green must have died between 1919 and 1923, this name appears to be the only F Green I can find that fits between the 2 dates.

could anyone be so kind as to have a look on the Ancestry website and see if any details are held for a Fred Green - 3 Millstone Yd - Wigan Lane - please.

Thanks

Brett

[brett361975]

Just another thank you to all those involved, please keep any information, photo's ect coming as they are all helping to build a bigger picture.

Regards

Brett

[Peridot]

The L and Y Engine Shed was in Prescott Street Wigan, and the site is now an industrial estate. Interestingly there was another Wigan Memorial to the men of the Great Central Railway which used to be in the foyer of the long gone Central Station and which quite recently turned up in a scrapyard and caused some mystification as to what it was - sad. I think it featured on the North West News on the BBC and there was something about it in the Wigan Observer around February this year.

Peridot

[ralphjd]

Brett. I do not have access to the 1911 Census only the 1901 and before, Fred Green born 1894 age 7 in 1901 lived with his family at 5 Millstone Yard Wigan. Ralph.

[rollofhonour]

Brett. I do not have access to the 1911 Census only the 1901 and before, Fred Green born 1894 age 7 in 1901 lived with his family at 5 Millstone Yard Wigan. Ralph.

In the 1911 census GREEN, Fred Son M 17 1894 Labourer Belowground Lancs Wigan

Resident 3 Mill Stone Yard Wigan

[brett361975]

Email received this morning from the LYRS

The published Lancashire & Yorkshire Railway Roll of Honour, a copy of which is available on our website, only lists names. It does not list the department they worked for, and the original staff records for the company were almost all destroyed in the 1920’s when the details were transferred to the London Midland and Scottish railway (which company the L&Y became part of) staff records after the “Grouping” of 1923.

However, there is one possible way of finding out their department. There is, in the National Archives in Kew, London, a Roll of Honour for the Lancashire & Yorkshire Railway company which lists all those employees who enlisted up to the end of 1915. This is because conscription started in 1916, and employees after that had no choice! This roll of honour lists everyone who enlisted by major company department (e.g. “Locomotive Department”, which, if your men worked at a depot, may be the one they worked in), then by location/depot. Their grade/job is listed as is their military unit. If only one or two of the men whose names you have enlisted up to the end of 1915 then they will be listed and so you can find out which depot they were at.

I attach a couple of photos of the document (which is all I have, I’m afraid). We don’t have a full copy. To look at the roll, you would need to either go to the National Archive, or ask them to do the research for you

Would anyone happen to be planning a visit to Kew in the near future that could possibly have a look for me and possibly take a photo of the Wigan Wallgate page for this project ?

it would be very much appreciated.

Thank you

Regards

Brett

[johndavidswarbrick]

By one of those wonderful coincidences I was at the NA today, before I read this last post, and I found the following [having already posted the existence of the Roll last week post #25]

From: “With The Colours 1914 – 15 The Roll of Honour of Lancashire and Yorkshire Railway Men”

NA Reference: RAIL 343/755

Locomotive Department

Wigan

Appleby Sidney – Cleaner – R. A.

Brown W. – Cleaner – R. F. A.

Gregory Jas. S – Cleaner – R. A

Henshaw J. – Cleaner – R. F. A. *

Lyons A. – Labourer – Lancashire Fusiliers

Regan A. E. – Cleaner – 5th Manchester

Read Frank – Cleaner – 5th Manchester

Smith Daniel – Fireman – R. A. M. C.

Talbot Wm. – Coalman – 5th Manchester

Woodcock A. – Fireman – 2/5th Manchester *

Green F. – Cleaner – King’s Royal Rifles

There is also a P. A. Stamper – Cleaner – 5th Manchester on the list.

[* the men marked with an asterisk did not seek permission to enlist]

I didn't have my camera with me to snap the appropriate page, but if you really want a photo of the page then let me know and I'll see what I can do.

Dave Swarbrick

[brett361975]

Dave,

Thank you very much ! very cheeky but if you could get a photograph of the page I would be very grateful, would be great supporting evidence to go with the plaque. Hope thats not too big an ask.

Thanks again

Regards

Brett

[johndavidswarbrick]

Not too big at all - I should be there sometime in the next couple of weeks and I get it done then,

Dave Swarbrick

[brett361975]

Dave, your a gent, no rush

regards

Brett

[KevinBattle]

There is no CWGC entry for any P A Stamper, nor do any of the 17 Stamper casualties appear to have any Wigan link, or be in any Manchester Regiment.

i thought that the Memorial was to men who fell, not including survivors...

Anyone have more info on this chap?

[Andy Wade]

There is no CWGC entry for any P A Stamper, nor do any of the 17 Stamper casualties appear to have any Wigan link, or be in any Manchester Regiment.

i thought that the Memorial was to men who fell, not including survivors...

Anyone have more info on this chap?

Stamper's on a separate roll of honour at the NA, he's not on the memorial plaque:

[johndavidswarbrick]

I just added the Stamper name to the ones I posted because that surname had been mentioned in the original post as having a connection. Sorry if it caused any confusion,

Dave Swarbrick

[brett361975]

Dave,

Across from Pte Green F - written very small in the corner is the name J M Stamper 1923 - im thinking this is the name of the person who wrote the names on this memorial.

thanks again for the help

Regards

Brett