brett361975 Posted 9 June , 2010 Share Posted 9 June , 2010 I came across this Memorial Tablet on Ebay of all places ! Feeling personally that this was not a very fitting end for the fallen men remembered on this memorial I decided to rescue it. I will be eating beans on toast for the next month or so, but its a small sacrifice to make compared to what these men gave up. I spoke to the vendor who had attempted to research the memorial but to no avail.( He did think the men had some connection with the Lancashire Fusiliers, but I'm not sure this is not a red herring ! ) These men deserve a fitting remembrance, who were these men ? where did they come from and what did they all have in common ? What was the Depot ? was in an Army Depot or a works Depot ? I hope with your help I maybe able to piece together the story of this plaque and the men remembered on it. the list ...... The memorial reads ......... This Tablet was subscribed for by the ex servicemen of this Depot. To perpetuate the memory of the men of this Depot who gave their lives for King and Country in the Great War 1914 - 1919 Pte Appleby S Dvr Brown W Gnr Gregory J.S Bombr Henshaw A Pte Lyons A Pte Regan A.E Pte Read F Pte Smith D Sgt Talbot W Pte Woodcock A Died from the effect of war service EX Pte Green F The plaque is marked - John M Stamper or Stamfer 1923 (I'm taking it that this is the man who wrote the tablet) The plaque has a Reg No - 659624 I'm trying to start this with an open mind, I would be grateful for any help, starting points and places to look. I look forward to your help and advise on researching this memorial- these men deserve to be remembered. Thank you Regards Brett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
River97 Posted 9 June , 2010 Share Posted 9 June , 2010 Brett, Do you have the link to the ebay page? Had a quick look and can't find it. Cheers Andy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brett361975 Posted 9 June , 2010 Author Share Posted 9 June , 2010 Ive done a quick edit and added the pictures to the post , thanks Brett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmania Posted 9 June , 2010 Share Posted 9 June , 2010 Brett Could be A E Regan: REGAN, ALBERT EDWARD Private,1304 1st/5th Bn Manchester Regiment Died 28/05/1915 age 21 Son of William and Annie Regan; husband of Elizabeth Annie Regan, of 53, Gleenway Rd., Higher Tranmere, Birkenhead Helles Memorial Panel 158 to 170 Aled Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digger Posted 9 June , 2010 Share Posted 9 June , 2010 I came across this Memorial Tablet on Ebay of all places ! Feeling personally that this was not very fitting for the names on the tablet I decided to rescue it. I spoke to the vendor who had attempted to research the memorial but to no avail.( He did think the men had some connection with the Lancashire Fusiliers, but I'm not sure this is not a red herring ! ) These men deserve a fitting remembrance, who were these men ? where did they come from and what did they all have in common ? What was the Depot ? was in an Army Depot or a works Depot ? I hope with your help I maybe able to place together the story of this plaque and the men remembered on it. the list ...... The memorial reads ......... This Tablet was subscribed for by the ex servicemen of this Depot. To perpetuate the memory of the men of this Depot who gave their lives for King and Country in the Great War 1914 - 1919 Pte Appleby S Dvr Brown W Gnr Gregory J.S Bombr Henshaw A Pte Lyons A Pte Regan A.E Pte Read F Pte Smith D Sgt Talbot W Pte Woodcock A Died from the effect of war service EX Pte Green F The plaque is marked - John M Spamper 1923 (I'm taking it that this is the man who wrote the tablet) The plaque has a Reg No - 659624 I'm trying to start this with an open mind, I would be grateful for any help, starting points and places to look. I look forward to your help and advise on researching this memorial- these men deserve to be remembered. Thank you Regards Brett [/quote Have you checked out the names on the Commonwealth War Graves Commission? http://www.cwgc.org/ There is a Albert Edward Regan from Berkenhead listed from the Manchester Regiment. A Lyons, but no obvious connection with Regan. Also no obvious connection with a Sgt W. Talbot that I can find. No reference to a Pte A. Woodcock at all on the CWGC. You could try the Memorial Man who is also a member of this site. He has a Roll of Honour site which is attempting to list all memorials and also researching the men on them. http://www.roll-of-honour.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Michelle Young Posted 9 June , 2010 Admin Share Posted 9 June , 2010 GREGORY, JAMES SHACKLADY Initials: J S Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Bombardier Regiment/Service: Royal Field Artillery Unit Text: 463rd Bty. 179th Bde. Age: 23 Date of Death: 25/02/1919 Service No: 12244 Additional information: Son of William and Margaret Gregory, of Wigan, Lancs. Served 4 years 6 months. Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: LXXII. C. 36. Cemetery: ETAPLES MILITARY CEMETERY A possible? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hywyn Posted 9 June , 2010 Share Posted 9 June , 2010 Trying to tackle the issue via John Spamper and getting an area for him. I find I cannot find anything on this surname in such things as FreeBMD, medals, 1901 Census etc. I can't quite see it on the plaque. Can you have another look? Another thought is Railways. There is a huge list of Railways Roll of Honours where they're set out in areas, depots etc but I can't quite place where I've seen it. A comparison with that might bring results. Hywyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brett361975 Posted 9 June , 2010 Author Share Posted 9 June , 2010 Thanks very much for all the help so far. Ive just picked it up this morning so just started on the research. Ive looked on the CWGC but was looking for something they all had in common, same town / city ect and so far have been unable to find one. Didn't think to look at the likes of train Depots as was of the misconception that people would not of traveled far in those days so all then men would have been from the same area. Very much appreciating the help so far, thank you Hywyn, Ive had another look at the name.....its in the corner across from Pte Green - could be Stamper or Stamfer - very Small and quite hard to make out. so John M Stamper / or John M stamfer 1923. Dont think this one is going to be as easy as I fist hoped ! Regards Brett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janecavell Posted 9 June , 2010 Share Posted 9 June , 2010 Well done for rescuing this piece of history, Brett Bombardier Henshaw's initial looks like a J to me (not an A as in transcript), so perhaps this is his CWGC entry: Name: HENSHAW, JOSEPH Initials: J Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Bombardier Regiment/Service: Royal Garrison Artillery Unit Text: 73rd Coy. Date of Death: 30/10/1918 Service No: 173165 Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: Face 2. Memorial: KIRKEE 1914-1918 MEMORIAL Perhaps someone with access to the SDGW database can check to see if this gives any more clue as to what these men had in common. The 1911 census might also give clues as to their pre-war jobs and locations. Jane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daggers Posted 9 June , 2010 Share Posted 9 June , 2010 I tried Henshaw in Geoff's search engine without initials and the nearest were Bdr J Henshaw, 73rd Coy RGA, with no family details shown, and Cpl J. Henshaw, 114th Battery RFA, of Wigan. Little help, I'm afraid. D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Wade Posted 9 June , 2010 Share Posted 9 June , 2010 My first thought was bus depot rather than train. Don't post offices also have depots? I mention this because one of my local memorials is to five local post office staff. And... A round of aplause from me for saving this memorial. Edited to add: could also be a Tram Depot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myos Posted 9 June , 2010 Share Posted 9 June , 2010 I've been flicking through 1911 Census John Mallinson Stamper of Wigan was a House Painter (in 1911) A number of men with names matching those on the plaque are miners or allied to the mining industry, though one James Shacklady Gregory was a 16 year old Errand Boy for a Wine and Spirit Dealer. Just a thought Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianw Posted 9 June , 2010 Share Posted 9 June , 2010 Deja Vu with this one! This plaque/tablet featured on this Forum a wee while ago. Did you buy it very recently? I think it was established that this sort of surround was manufactured commercially - hence the reg number and sold to clubs, depots etc. I love the quite naive nature of the script used - someone put a lot of work into this in remembrance of his friends. Nice to see it in safe hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kemrobson Posted 9 June , 2010 Share Posted 9 June , 2010 Having a quick look through SDGW there seems to be a Wigan connection, most enlisting in Wigan and also CWGC addresses in Wigan. Hope this helps Regards Keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brett361975 Posted 9 June , 2010 Author Share Posted 9 June , 2010 Thank you very much again for all your help. I don't have access to SDGW so any information regarding these men found on there would be very useful if added to this post. I'm thinking the best start point is with Gnr J S Gregory- as we seem to be able to narrow this down to one man on the CWGC - would anyone have access to THE Ancestry website that could have a look and see if his records survive on there ? GREGORY, JAMES SHACKLADY Initials: J S Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Bombardier Regiment/Service: Royal Field Artillery Unit Text: 463rd Bty. 179th Bde. Age: 23 Date of Death: 25/02/1919 Service No: 12244 Additional information: Son of William and Margaret Gregory, of Wigan, Lancs. Served 4 years 6 months. Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: LXXII. C. 36. Cemetery: ETAPLES MILITARY CEMETERY I'm hoping his trade maybe writen on his service records somewhere. Any help would be much appreciated. Thanks Brett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Hartley Posted 9 June , 2010 Share Posted 9 June , 2010 This plaque seems familiar - has it cropped up on the Forum before? Two possible Wigan connections then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Wade Posted 9 June , 2010 Share Posted 9 June , 2010 Wahay! Google IS your friend! I copied and pasted all the list of names into Google and did a search. The first hit was the MANCHESTER & LANCASHIRE FAMILY HISTORY SOCIETY Which has a .pdf page containing a full list of all the employees of Victoria Station of the Lancashire and Yorkshire Railway here Every name on the list is on that page which is a full roll of honour for the railway. It must be a railway depot. I guess there's a fair chance that someone from the MLFHS will be able to help you locate its precise home. My work is finished here. I'm off to deliver my talk tonight and then the bar beckons... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ralphjd Posted 9 June , 2010 Share Posted 9 June , 2010 Brett. No records,only a medal card stating deceased 25-2-1919. Ralph. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brett361975 Posted 9 June , 2010 Author Share Posted 9 June , 2010 Wow ! this forum will never cease to amaze me ! Andy, you've cracked it ! brilliant, So all the men on this Memorial worked for the Lancashire and Yorkshire Railway. Now I just need to track down the location of the Depot where they all worked. Dimwit question now.....what is the MLFHS ? Thank you all very much for your help with this project, I plan to put all the information together with this plaque so the memory of these men may never be forgotten or lost again. I bought this plaque this morning ( 9th June) so if anyone could post the link to the previous thread / discussion about this Memorial plaque I would be very grateful. Right, now where do I find this MLFHS ? and how do I contact them ? Regards and well done to all that have helped so far Brett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janecavell Posted 9 June , 2010 Share Posted 9 June , 2010 MLFHS = Manchester & Lancashire Family History Society (Andy gives a link to their site in post no. 17) The earlier discussion can be found here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ralphjd Posted 9 June , 2010 Share Posted 9 June , 2010 Brett. The answer lies in Andys post :- Manchester and Lancashire Family History Society At least 6 of the men named originate from Wigan born there or enlisted there according to SDGW. Cannot trace any service records as yet. Ralph. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ralphjd Posted 9 June , 2010 Share Posted 9 June , 2010 A wee bit more:- APPLEBY SYDNEY 25-7-16 born and enlisted Wigan; BROWN WILLIAM 15-9-16 born enlisted and resided Wigan; LYONS ARTHUR born and enlisted Wigan; REGAN ALBERT EDWARD born and enlisted Wigan; TALBOT WILLIAM born and enlisted Wigan; WOODCOCK ABRAHAM enlisted Wigan. Ralph. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kemrobson Posted 9 June , 2010 Share Posted 9 June , 2010 I would suggest Wigan Wallgate Station could be the depot, operated by the Lancashire & Yorshire Railway from 1896 at it's present location. Regards Keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinBattle Posted 9 June , 2010 Share Posted 9 June , 2010 Stamper was in Wigan, so I guess the Depot should be somewhere close by.... See: Wigan - page 16? and scroll down to the article about 2 cow horns.... same Name... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johndavidswarbrick Posted 9 June , 2010 Share Posted 9 June , 2010 The National Archives at Kew has a copy of The Lancashire & Yorkshire Railway Roll of Honour – With the Colours 1914 – 1915 [National Archives ref: RAIL 343/755] Men are listed by trade and by depot, if I remember correctly. Might be useful in narrowing the search down to the actual depot. Dave Swarbrick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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