BWM Fake?

[centurion]

So what does one do with the "ringer"?

David

(Custodian of my Grandfather's BWM/VM handed down via my father)

Well unless you find the original seller picking up the soap - not a lot

[ph0ebus]

So what does one do with the "ringer"?

David

(Custodian of my Grandfather's BWM/VM handed down via my father)

Ideas off the top of my head (and all meant in jest, given the thing is totally bogus):

(1) See how far out into the Channel you can hurl it

(2) Christmas Tree/Chanukah Bush ornament

(3) Hang it from the rearview mirror of your car

(4) Regift it to that chap they busted last year wearing all the medals he never earned

(5) Railroad BWM?

-Daniel

[River97]

So what does one do with the "ringer"?

David

(Custodian of my Grandfather's BWM/VM handed down via my father)

Why not try a physics experiment and tell us what temperature is required to melt the said item.

We could turn it into a competition - who can guess the correct temperature to melt the fake. Might just work on the stove.

Cheers Andy.

[auchonvillerssomme]

It is probably a one off copy and has now been the subject of a long discussion on 2 internet forums, with that provenance and public interest it must be worth more than the original. I would suggest printing off all the posts on the threads and put it on ebay as a reproduction with paperwork. It will sell. Give me a shout if you want me to do the write up.

Mick

[27thBN]

It is probably a one off copy and has now been the subject of a long discussion on 2 internet forums, with that provenance and public interest it must be worth more than the original. I would suggest printing off all the posts on the threads and put it on ebay as a reproduction with paperwork. It will sell. Give me a shout if you want me to do the write up.

Mick

This is going to be a classic thread at this rate by the number of replies its getting. MC.

[Unknownsoldier]

Tom

Humour. That was my point, but not everybody knows that.

Yours ect

TR - Chairman - TR (Enterprises) Inc.

My apologies

Tom

[headgardener]

This is going to be a classic thread at this rate by the number of replies its getting.

At least the thread's original...........

Sorry.

[depaor01]

It is probably a one off copy and has now been the subject of a long discussion on 2 internet forums, with that provenance and public interest it must be worth more than the original. I would suggest printing off all the posts on the threads and put it on ebay as a reproduction with paperwork. It will sell. Give me a shout if you want me to do the write up.

Mick

Outstanding! Don't tempt me...

[rksimpson]

Sorry I wont be buying it- probably will get too expensive for what it is!!!???

regards

Robert

[centurion]

At least the thread's original...........

But its a British Standard Whitworth which puts the wrong date on it - the whole topics a fake!

[headgardener]

But its a British Standard Whitworth which puts the wrong date on it - the whole topics a fake!

But I thought this was a United Thread..............?

I'll get my coat.....

[depaor01]

But its a British Standard Whitworth which puts the wrong date on it - the whole topics a fake!

I had to Google "British Standard Whitworth". That escaped even a Trivia Hound like myself!

On that note I'd like to put this thread out of its misery!

[Nulli Secundus]

Just read through this thread and I know I'm a bit late but my feeling is this "medal" has probably been made not to deceive any unsuspecting medal collectors but more likely made for the family or relatives in a fair crude workshop.

As has already been mentioned the monetary reward for faking BWM's is not particularly high. Plus the recipient is not a VC winner or anyone whose medals would be worth more than the standard price.

About 15 years ago I saw something similar but the medal in question was an 1879 Zulu War medal named to a defender of Rorke's Drift. (obviously worth faking if you are that way inclined) the patina was exactly the same as the pictures above. The person selling it claimed it had been in a house fire and that's why it didn't look and feel right.

I suppose it's worth keeping as a curio.

[Philip Wilson]

This reproduction BWM is nothing more than a curio of little value worthy of being awarded to your favourite dog. Unfortunately there is likely to be more than one BWM with the same name in circulation.

It is said Hogarth's dog was sent round the streets of Oxford with T.E.Lawrence's French Croix de Guerre tied to his neck - see page 301 in 'T.E.Lawrence and his Friends' and that was a real medal.

[David B]

I'd frame the thing and hang it in a prominent place to constantly remind me that things are not always what they purport to be.

David

[depaor01]

I'd frame the thing and hang it in a prominent place to constantly remind me that things are not always what they purport to be.

David

I've become a big fan of Phaedrus since this incident......

"Non semper ea sunt quae videntur"

I think I'll incorporate it into my avatar!

[auchonvillerssomme]

Phaedrus the Epicurean?

[centurion]

Wasn't he the one who said "Fate cannot touch me - I have dined today"?

[depaor01]

Phaedrus the Epicurean?

Nope, Phaedrus the Fabulist (a writer of Fables apparently!)

[cazack]

Hello

In regards to this medal I have just recently purchased the original BWM awarded to Albert Berg

please find the pictures of the BWM, any comments would be welcomed

Regards

[Martin Feledziak]

How interesting. I have copied over a section from the original post to make a comparison.

Looks like a perfect match - your original appears to have picked up a slight dent on the rim above the "A".

That dent is not on the "Fake"

It is difficult to tell but there appears to be a mark on the rim below the "i" in GeorgI which could also feature on the fake

[headgardener]

I contributed to the early parts of this thread, and remember it well....! How funny that you should pick up the original that was clearly used as the template for the replica medal in the OP!

[depaor01]

Hi cazack

Yep I'm the owner of the dodgy BWM!

Amazing that the original should finally turn up. I still have my fake carefully crafted replica in a drawer somewhere. It somehow didn't belong in my "real" collection. Re-reading the thread I'm still no closer to understanding how and why someone would go to all that trouble to fake carefully craft a reasonably well made replica of a medal that, in collector's terms, is nothing out of the ordinary.

As I muse further I imagine A. Cpl Berg would be quite amused at his sudden fame, and the reason for it.

I'll dig it out and post a decent image of it from the same angle as the original you've posted.

Thanks for posting,

Dave

[headgardener]

Re-reading the thread I'm still no closer to understanding how and why someone would go to all that trouble to fake carefully craft a reasonably well made replica of a medal that, in collector's terms, is nothing out of the ordinary.

I think I said very early on in the thread that I came across medals like these being sold in a local household auction and in some local 'collectors' markets during the mid-90's (right around the 'Antiques Roadshow' boom, if you know what I mean). The replica medals were clearly cast in the way that your medal was (with a circumferential line separating the two halves) and with numerous flaws (bubbles, lumps, etc). They were all nicely mounted on a cloth backing in modern slightly distressed 'antique-style' frames, the backs of which were similarly 'distressed'; sometimes single medals, sometimes groups (can't remember whether trios or pairs or simply various unconnected medals) which would appear to the untrained eye to be the sort of thing that would have hung on the wall in a house during the 20's. I remember also seeing similarly framed French medals (C de G or Med Mil and something else, framed with a French certificate that on close inspection was clearly a colour photocopy).

They were never sold in antiques auctions, only in household auctions, which led me to believe that someone was being very careful to avoid being accused of selling a fake while simultaneously attempting to imply that they were genuine - I think they generally went for about £25-30 (this was at a time when a single BWM was about a £8-10), and I suspect that they got snapped up by people who saw something that looked genuine to their eyes and imagined that they'd come across a 'diamond in the dirt'. I also wondered whether they may have been made in bulk for hanging on the walls of 'heritage-style' pubs (along with framed collections of fake cigarette cards and the like). They certainly weren't being marketed to collectors! If the cost of casting and framing one of these medals came to less than a tenner (if made in bulk maybe considerably less?), then I can see how they could turn a reasonable profit from them. I suspect that yours is one of these medals taken out of the frame. Thinking back on it, I imagine that the frames would now appear to look rather obviously cheap and tacky, so perhaps it made more sense to the vendor to take it out of the frame?.

[cazack]

Looking at the number there seems to be some very small differences, maybe as a result of the moulding.

I have been collecting medals from various countries for years and have seen fakes and copies from Countries such as the Soviet Union because of the value of certain high end awards such as Order of the Red Banner, but don't understand the reason for faking a BWM, but maybe it shows short sightedness of some people.

C