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depaor01

BWM Fake?

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headgardener
It was purchased at a collectables fair.

Well, I guess it IS a collectible, depending on what you collect of course.......

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depaor01
Dealer wasn't a rodent faced chap? Said something like "28 Euro and that's cutting my own throat" ? :whistle:

The very lad! You wouldn't have his phone number to hand would you????

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centurion
The very lad! You wouldn't have his phone number to hand would you????

He might have a C mail address!

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Philip Wilson

[quote

It's clear that there is no care factor in the original medal so I'll have it as at least I give a damn about my un-commemorated, un-remembered division of Londoners. :angry2: It's the first blatant fake medal to the Division I have ever seen.

Andy the 60th London Division fought with distinction in Palestine. On the 8th November, 1917 their progress was held up by batteries of guns and stubborn Turkish Infantry on ridges in the proximity of Huj (Turkish 8th Army HQ.) 'The Affair of Huj' can be seen in our Museum and the 60th Division is often referred to by our Museum guides when describing the events leading up to the Cavalry Charge.

:angry2: As for this blatant fake medal - I share your concern.

Philip

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Arnhem44

Just think of people being duped out of hard earned cash when buying off auction websites,how often is a medal listed with just the face showing and not the details on the edge,at least at a fair you have a chance to examine a medal and make a decision there and then if you suspect something isn't right.It disgusts me personally to see this practise,the market is being flooded with repos of all types over the past few years.Would it be made of copper and have some form of silver wash on it?,looking at the photos again the colour looks copper based and it is definitely cast where the mold has not lined up properly.The stamping of the lettering is off and not lining up at all right.

Brendan

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Unknownsoldier

I've seen fakes like this before, more often than not they were made to replace lost medals and not for pecuniary gain, unless said man was za gallantry medal winner, kia etc.

TBH it should fool no one, but it seemingly, (the worst style of copy, two half cast, they are not cast seperately but it is the mould, made in two halves, often from plaster), I always check for weight, feel, sharpness at edge etc. etc. Always trust your gut, and carry a loupe, I do....

Still a bummer, but I'd keep it as a reminder, I have several fake gongs for comparison purposes :D

ATB,

Tom

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centurion
TBH it should fool no one, but it seemingly, (the worst style of copy, two half cast, they are not cast seperately but it is the mould, made in two halves, often from plaster),

Given the sharpness of the front probably something better than plaster. There are some cold cure moulding products used by the modelling fraternity (I don't mean Kate Moss) that will give that sharpness - however if you aren't that good with creating the mould (or don't care) you get that sort of misalignment in the finished product - look at some of the Merlin limited run WW1 aircraft kits of about ten years ago

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trenchtrotter

Plus always trust gut instinct based on experience.

All alarm bells rang! I would have walked.

Thanks for sharing though...brave act to share ones mistakes and we can all learn from each other.

TT

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PhilB

I would agree with Tom that it`s the two halves of the mould that haven`t been aligned properly when the medal was cast, not struck. The raised line around the rim is a giveaway. I`d not have thought anyone would cast a BWM with intent to deceive. Isn`t there always some flashing where the halves of a mould join? Well done for airing it!

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centurion

QUOTE (Phil_B @ Jun 7 2010, 06:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
. Isn`t there always some flashing where the halves of a mould join?

Mould flash is caused if the two parts of the mould don't seal properly and is usually associated with plastic injection moulding where there is some pressure ( a problem with older runs of plastic kits and some of the early Eastern bloc stuff). The fault here is misalignment of the halves of the mould

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Unknownsoldier

Dental casting material is used nowadays, as it gives the best replication, it is heavily used by the TR replication "fraternity".....

Tom

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headgardener
...... the TR replication "fraternity".....

.............?

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stoj22

I thought this might be of interest ref. 16th Londons..... Click here!

Steve.

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depaor01
Plus always trust gut instinct based on experience.

All alarm bells rang! I would have walked.

Thanks for sharing though...brave act to share ones mistakes and we can all learn from each other.

TT

Thanks Trenchtrotter. I would've been more thorough if it had been an Iron Cross or something I was aware could have been fake. It's the difference, I suppose, between "looking" and "seeing"...

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hmsk212

Hi

My observations are that yes this is a cast copy but the name may have been added by relatives to replace a missing medal and hence not a deliberate deception at the time it was made. However, after a period of time it has arrived on the market and had been sold as an original, which is a deception.

Steve

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Unknownsoldier

Headgardner: Third Reich - TR

HMSK: Name has not been added afterwards, it is a common cheap copy that has been cast from an orignial and the name has simply transferred.... :D I suspect this mans medal was the closest to hand and got quickly cast.

Tom

PS is any other firefox user having trouble with posting? I can't start any new threads or use anything other than quick reply.

T

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headgardener
Headgardner: Third Reich - TR

"The TR replication fraternity" - is that another name for the Lebensborn project?

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Unknownsoldier
"The TR replication fraternity" - is that another name for the Lebensborn project?

"Faking bassers" is I think the term.... dental casting give very very good detail, scarily so on some of the stuff i've seen.

Tom

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headgardener
"The TR replication fraternity" - is that another name for the Lebensborn project?

Obscure TR joke.

Sorry, I'll close the door on my way out........

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Unknownsoldier

LOL :D :D Sorry mind has been overloaded with TR. :D

Tom

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dfaulder
>><<

PS is any other firefox user having trouble with posting? I can't start any new threads or use anything other than quick reply.

T

Is this another recurrence of trouble with the editor - which seems to be work-around-able by clicking on the "Switch between standard and rich text editor" button which is the right most one on the top row of icons when using the full editor (rather than the quick reply)?

There was a thread on this 2? months ago.

HTH

David

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Piglet

I have a note that Berg's medal was offered for sale on Ebay in 2004 as a "named replica". It sold for £7.50 (!)

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River97

Just come off the BMF and there are a few threads about this also. There is a member there who has the original and was rather astounded when this fake appeared on e-bay a couple of months ago. I would doubt very much that he the one who copied the medal, it must have been done before it came into his possession.

At least the original is in good hands - there are photo's of it on the BMF.

Cheers Andy.

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o j kirby

Hello,

If there can be any good to come out of this, it is the fact that the fake has been shared with us, and a warning for collectors to be aware of. Perhaps there ought to be something on the forum where fakes and mis-identified items can be seen, and therefore a worthwhile service for the unsuspecting.

Owain.

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27thBN
Just come off the BMF and there are a few threads about this also. There is a member there who has the original and was rather astounded when this fake appeared on e-bay a couple of months ago. I would doubt very much that he the one who copied the medal, it must have been done before it came into his possession.

At least the original is in good hands - there are photo's of it on the BMF.

Cheers Andy.

Well thats confirmed that it was copied ,not that we had any doubt about that ,amazing someone from he BMF actually has the original.

MC

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