CROONAERT Posted 2 June , 2010 Share Posted 2 June , 2010 Just curious as to what the CWGC procedure is to the naming of cemeteries (and also their listing of burials) in their online service. The reason being that I obtained a CWGC headstone photo for someone on another forum recently that was listed as being in 'St Leonard's Churchyard extension, Padiham' but was, in fact, in Padiham Cemetery. Last weekend, I photographed all the CWGC headstones in Padiham (St.John's) Churchyard and was curious to see how many recorded burials there were (to see how many I'd missed!) there only to find that this cemetery doesn't exist on CWGC online and that all the burials are listed as being in 'Padiham cemetery' (about half a mile away). Padiham cemetery is also listed as containing '21' CWGC burials, yet I counted 14 CWGC headstones in there and a further 10 in St.Johns...and that doesn't count the several that have private headstones. (one example...Pte.Robert Bullen of the Accy Pals is even listed as being in Padiham Cemetery in Bill Turner's 'Accrington Pals Remembered' booklet (due to the CWGC listings?) whereas his was one of the graves I photographed in St.Johns). I note that the grave references may diffrentiate the actual cemetery, but surely the fact that these may be in a completely different part of town should be made clear online? Any ideas? dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Denham Posted 2 June , 2010 Share Posted 2 June , 2010 Dave CWGC's policy on this very point is being rationalised as we speak! The rule will be that where a cemetery extension is physically separate from its parent cemetery, they will be listed as two separate locations. Where they are actually located together with no separation now existing (though it may have done at one time), they will be recorded as one single location. A large number of affected locations have already been merged or demerged in the Debt of Honour so far this year but there will be more to come. The process is taking place on a county by county basis. From what you say, the location you were in should end up as two separate locations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 2 June , 2010 Author Share Posted 2 June , 2010 Thanks for that Terry. Any ideas on the differences in quoted numbers though? (CWGC say 21 for Padiham Cemetery, yet there are (at least) 24 CWGC headstones if Padiham and Padiham St John's are combined) Cheers. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 2 June , 2010 Author Share Posted 2 June , 2010 Any ideas on the differences in quoted numbers though? (CWGC say 21 for Padiham Cemetery, yet there are (at least) 24 CWGC headstones if Padiham and Padiham St John's are combined) ...(just noticed)...plus a further 23 if all of the 'Padiham St Leonard Churchyard Extension' graves are actually in Padiham Cemetery (as the one I looked for was), which is actually quite likely seeing as Padiham St.Leonard doesn't actually have a churchyard as such anymore (never mind an extension!). Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Denham Posted 2 June , 2010 Share Posted 2 June , 2010 Dave I don't know the location personally but would welcome a description from you as to the relative positions of the churchyard extension and the cemetery. I have just contacted someone who has photos of the war graves there and he tells me it looks like Bullen is in the cemetery as per CWGC and not as you descibe above. However, I have not seen the pic myself. Can you describe the two sites? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 2 June , 2010 Author Share Posted 2 June , 2010 Bullen's grave is definately in Padiham St Johns (I've only ever photographed one single grave in Padiham cemetery (which was a WW2 grave that is listed as padiham st leonard's), so this is a dead cert for location..... unless.... he has 2 headstones??? (Might take a look in Padiham cemetery later this afternoon)... back in a mo' with locations... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Denham Posted 2 June , 2010 Share Posted 2 June , 2010 Dave There are two cemeteries marked on the OS map in Padiham separated from the churchyard - one I presume is the Churchyard Extension and the other is Padiham Cemetery. Can you clarify which one you believe Bullen to be in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Denham Posted 2 June , 2010 Share Posted 2 June , 2010 Thanks for the pic. Is that in the churchyard or in the churchyard extension? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 2 June , 2010 Author Share Posted 2 June , 2010 Bullen is in St John's. .... St.Leonard's (extension) no longer exists... here's the locales... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 2 June , 2010 Author Share Posted 2 June , 2010 This is what's left of St.Leonard's (Churchyard & Extension)... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 2 June , 2010 Author Share Posted 2 June , 2010 ...and this is the one and only photograph I've ever taken in Padiham Cemetery... he happens to be listed as 'residing' in St.Leonards! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Denham Posted 2 June , 2010 Share Posted 2 June , 2010 It certainly seems confused. I'll see what I can find out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Denham Posted 2 June , 2010 Share Posted 2 June , 2010 It is confused! I have just found this website that shows Bullen in Padiham Cemetery in St John's Rd. http://www.eastlancsmemorials.co.uk/wargra...hamcemetery.htm and it does not list Kay as being there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 2 June , 2010 Author Share Posted 2 June , 2010 It gets better!... here's part of one (of 3) of Bullen's obituaries from the Burnley Express... mentioning his burial at Padiham Cemetery (!)... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Denham Posted 2 June , 2010 Share Posted 2 June , 2010 Dave Although I accept your on the spot position, could it be that what you have marked as 'Padiham Cemetery' is actually 'St Lawrence Churchyard Extension' and that 'St Johns Cemetery' is actually 'Padiham Cemetery'. This is only a theory to be shot down and I cannot explain the Bullen situation. I have enquired at CWGC about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 2 June , 2010 Author Share Posted 2 June , 2010 It is confused! I have just found this website that shows Bullen in Padiham Cemetery in St John's Rd. http://www.eastlancsmemorials.co.uk/wargra...hamcemetery.htm and it does not list Kay as being there! That one's Padiham (St.John's). I think that there were 2 cemeteries referred to as 'Padiham Cemetery' (St John's possibly being the Catholic one). The Burnley County Council seem to differentiate them by naming it as 'St.John's Padiham Cemetery'. (It's a bit of an odd little town to be honest, so nothing should surprise me from there!!! ). At least St.Leonard's is simple enough...it just doesn't exist! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisharley9 Posted 2 June , 2010 Share Posted 2 June , 2010 & to be quite honest with you I thought I was potty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Denham Posted 2 June , 2010 Share Posted 2 June , 2010 I still favour the one being formerly known as St Lawrence Churchyard Extension. I have looked at it on Google Street View and, annoyingly, there is an out-of-focus sign on the entrance which may have helped. Still, an interesting problem. I'll report back when CWGC comes up with their answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 2 June , 2010 Author Share Posted 2 June , 2010 Got a couple of definates... St.Leonard's churchyard extension was to the immediate north of the old churchyard (on the site of the old Padiham grammar school). The Cemetery to the north of St.John's church is what was referred to as Padiham Green Cemetery. What I've referred to as 'Padiham cemetery' (opened 1853) actually is. It was , however, affiliated with St.Leonard's (the parish church) and later became the recipticle of bodies moved upon the closure of St.Leonard's churchyard and extension. Things still seem a little skewiff though! Dave *edit* info taken from a Historic Town Assessment report compiled by Lancashire County Council, May 2005 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Denham Posted 2 June , 2010 Share Posted 2 June , 2010 Getting closer though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 2 June , 2010 Author Share Posted 2 June , 2010 I knew I should just concentrate on Burnley cemeteries and churchyards!!!... far simpler! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 2 June , 2010 Author Share Posted 2 June , 2010 & to be quite honest with you I thought I was potty. Who's to say that you're not, Chris? Dave I have looked at it on Google Street View and, annoyingly, there is an out-of-focus sign on the entrance which may have helped. its just a standard LCC cemetery regs sign (no unaccompanied kids and the like). (Thought it was, but went to have a nosey anyway!) Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost Posted 2 June , 2010 Share Posted 2 June , 2010 Where they are actually located together with no separation now existing (though it may have done at one time), they will be recorded as one single location. The process is taking place on a county by county basis. Terry, can you tell me if Warwickshire has been completed, I mean the seperation by CWGC. Reason I ask is the confusion of picture below. The parish Clerk also got a bit mixed up when CWGC spoke to her. Tell me these two graves are in different cemeteries on opposite sides of a main road. Mancetter LLewellyn's headstone can be seen besides the path in streetview, Whitley is down the path and turn left. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Denham Posted 3 June , 2010 Share Posted 3 June , 2010 Alan Not as far as I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost Posted 3 June , 2010 Share Posted 3 June , 2010 Terry, Thanks, I'll keep an eye on this one then. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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