1690philip Posted 30 May , 2010 Share Posted 30 May , 2010 Just started an on line petition to recognise the Bravery of two 15th Battalion Royal Irish Rifles soldiers. Please feel free to leave your signature. http://gopetition.co.uk/petitions/bravery-...d-and-shaw.html Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desmond7 Posted 30 May , 2010 Share Posted 30 May , 2010 This will not go down well but it has to be said .. in my opinion fundamentally and morally wrong. The past is past. Sorry, I cannot go down this route. Des Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlesmessenger Posted 30 May , 2010 Share Posted 30 May , 2010 Phil While I recognise your wish to obtain formal recognition for these two men I fail to see why they should be singled out from the thousands of others who sacrificed their lives in similar circumstances and received no award. Charles M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeilEvans Posted 30 May , 2010 Share Posted 30 May , 2010 What 'award' to you want? The mod will not do this, a precedent would be set where thousands of men may recieve retrospective awards. This will not be successful. Any act of remembrance should be praised. But i can't help but think this is a case of re-writing history. I have hundreds of Shropshire men who reportedly died saving others. I'm not about to go and lobby the Mod for awards 90 years later. Sorry for the negative comment. I just think this is wrong. Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1690philip Posted 30 May , 2010 Author Share Posted 30 May , 2010 As much as I respect you decisions and thoughts I think I am doing the right thing and already 47 people also think this. We must keep their memory alive and let our young know what Sacrifice men such as these paid for the freedom we enjoy today. Neill I think if you feel so strongly about the Shropshire men that never got recognised then do something as I did. I know the hopes of recognition is slim but people now will be aware of the actions of these two Brave North Belfast men, a story that would be forgotten otherwise. I am not wanting a specif award just recognition. The reason I am singling these two brave men out is that I am researching into the 15th Battalion and after telling the story to the local North Belfast Community I and friends were asked to see how we could will keep their memory alive in any way possible. Local people suggested the petition and I brought back your thoughts on the thread from forum pals. I always take my lead from the community and we always must listen and if this is what they wanted well lets do it. For too long people dismisses other peoples ideas negative, well lets talk generate debate and act. Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1690philip Posted 30 May , 2010 Author Share Posted 30 May , 2010 Also there will be an on line memorial in their memory coming very soon. Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeilEvans Posted 30 May , 2010 Share Posted 30 May , 2010 Now the online memorial is a good idea. You mention 47 people have signed. Perhaps a good way to assertain 'opinion' is to start a forum poll asking whether this is a good idea? Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1690philip Posted 30 May , 2010 Author Share Posted 30 May , 2010 Neill I took your feedback on the thread and the virtual memorial and petition they wanted. We all know the chances of getting recognised is slim but what a way to let people know the story of these two brave men, just like thousands of other soldiers. I don`t mind a poll I am up for it but the decision was made by the locals, we must respect that after all it was the local Battalion. Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Hartley Posted 30 May , 2010 Share Posted 30 May , 2010 Please feel free to leave your signature. Whilst I wish you well as I know you are doing this with the best of intentions, it is something I feel is fundamentally wrong. I cannot support it and hope it comes to nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1690philip Posted 30 May , 2010 Author Share Posted 30 May , 2010 John I don`t see how it is fundamentally wrong please tell me why you think this? phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Baker Posted 30 May , 2010 Share Posted 30 May , 2010 I've just visited the website referred to on the petition page: http://rathcoolesommesociety.com/. I am stunned. The 'bit of history' on the page on 36th (Ulster) Division has been lifted in its entirety from the Long, Long Trail. And the site does not have the good grace to even give a link to the LLT on its links page. Phil, I would like you to take immediate steps to help ensure that this is corrected either by removal of the text from the page or by suitable credit both on the page and on the links page. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1690philip Posted 30 May , 2010 Author Share Posted 30 May , 2010 Chris please free up your pm in box. I think you will agree that both text is different and copy of your concerns has been sent to the webmaster who has overall control. I think this is between you and him and I am a bit embarrassed to be drawn in to this this between you. I think you have used the wrong platform to voice your concerns and as the thread says its about a petition not WEBSITE. I am now concerned that this is getting onto personal rather than forum. Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Hartley Posted 30 May , 2010 Share Posted 30 May , 2010 John I don`t see how it is fundamentally wrong please tell me why you think this? Phil Please see posts 2, 3 & 4 above which succintly explain the situation as I see it. It is a similar matter to the discussion we see more often about adding names to war memorials - I fundamentally disagree with that also, in most circumstances. I take the view that in both situations, folk are trying to second guess and/or overturn the decisions taken at the time by people who were on the spot and knew the matters better than anyone today. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bardess Posted 30 May , 2010 Share Posted 30 May , 2010 Good luck with it Phil - you never know until you try. I think it's great when a community comes together. A couple of small errors: Parapet has no 'h' and please have the second 'also' removed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Tulloch-Marshall Posted 30 May , 2010 Share Posted 30 May , 2010 I suspect that the two men concerned would be very uncomfortable with this misguided proposal. I also feel obliged to remind that fools seldom differ. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarylW Posted 30 May , 2010 Share Posted 30 May , 2010 Good luck to you Phil and to the community involved and fair play to you for holding your own here with so many against Respect! Caryl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kate Wills Posted 30 May , 2010 Share Posted 30 May , 2010 ... then do something as I did. ... The reason I am singling these two brave men out is that I am researching into the 15th Battalion and after telling the story to the local North Belfast Community I and friends were asked to see how we could will keep their memory alive in any way possible. Local people suggested the petition and I brought back your thoughts on the thread from forum pals. I always take my lead from the community and we always must listen and if this is what they wanted well lets do it. For too long people dismisses other peoples ideas negative, well lets talk generate debate and act. Phil, I'm unsure, reading your post quoted above, how the idea came about and to what extent it was debated prior to the launching the petition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1690philip Posted 30 May , 2010 Author Share Posted 30 May , 2010 Thank you to both Diane and Caryl great encouragement to hear after so much negative comments, makes it worth well. Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1690philip Posted 30 May , 2010 Author Share Posted 30 May , 2010 I'm unsure, reading your post quoted above, how the idea came about and to what extent it was debated prior to the launching the petition. Kate I researched the Battalion on behalf of a group of 50 people and came across a remarkable bout of courage told my findings and showed the evidence now they asked me why no one recognised their actions and now they have asked how do we recognise these men. I put out a thread asking forum members for ideas and to be honest only the usual answered. Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1690philip Posted 30 May , 2010 Author Share Posted 30 May , 2010 I suspect that the two men concerned would be very uncomfortable with this misguided proposal. I also feel obliged to remind that fools seldom differ. Tom Tom what is misguided about the proposal surely peoples voices should be heard. Instead of people being negative maybe for a change be postive really can`t see your point Pal but respect your option. Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kate Wills Posted 30 May , 2010 Share Posted 30 May , 2010 Phil, Are you going to put the various points raised here to the people who have asked for the petition or have they already considered the points raised here, especially Charles's stance: "While I recognise your wish to obtain formal recognition for these two men I fail to see why they should be singled out from the thousands of others who sacrificed their lives in similar circumstances and received no award." I don't want to sound negative Phil, as with others I'm sure your intentions are wholly honourable. I just get the feeling that the good idea has perhaps shone more brightly than the road to be travelled. After all, you need to convince the bods at the MOD, and their response will very likely echo Charles's post. How do you counter the argument of re-writing history, and the millions of similar applications that would ensue if this one was to succeed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiletto_33853 Posted 30 May , 2010 Share Posted 30 May , 2010 Phil, You want to keep these men's memory alive, good for you. Build a local memorial to these men and build a website dedicated to their commemoration. However, I cannot not go along with your proposal for retrospective recognition for these men, and, also believe it is fundamentally and morally wrong, so wholeheartedly agree with posts 2, 3 & 4, also John's post 13. I feel that this is wrong, also why not all the other men that died helping others???. Not a negative response in that there are a couple of far more positive ways of remembering these men given. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrim Posted 31 May , 2010 Share Posted 31 May , 2010 How many acts that merited a VC were performed when no one was watching? How many VCs were earned but never awarded because those who witnessed it died and so it was never recommended? How many VCs were recommended but not awarded because the event wasn't witnessed by someone of an appropriate rank? How many VC recommendations were refused because of a missing or a misplaced comma? We could go on and on speculating about who wasn't properly honored and why, but we'll never get it right. The point is that the authorities nearly 100 years ago did the best job they could to recognize heroism. In such a war, many were missed, certainly more than were recognized, but there does come a time to stop and call it an end, and let the dead rest in peace. Besides, isn't that what we have Memorial Days for, to honor all the heroes of the war? By all means, remember these men on a memorial in a place that was important to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Watch Posted 31 May , 2010 Share Posted 31 May , 2010 How exactly do you consider recognising their actions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seadog Posted 31 May , 2010 Share Posted 31 May , 2010 No retrospective awards No additions to war memorials No "new" memorials The past is the past, leave well alone!. Norman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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