Jayenn Posted 30 May , 2010 Share Posted 30 May , 2010 As I understand it, in 1919, under the terms of the Versailles Treaty, it was agreed that Allied troops, British and French, were to garrison the Rhineland, at Koln. Does anyone know how large this occupational force was, what regiments, etc. it comprised, and exactly where they were quartered? I’m no military expert so I hope I’ve got the terminology right! Many thanks in advance! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peridot Posted 30 May , 2010 Share Posted 30 May , 2010 This is an interest of mine Jayenn as my grandfather was in Cologne in 1919 just prior to de-mob. He was in Motor Transport in the ASC and unfortunately I have never been able to find any information or a list of ASC Units that served there. It may be different for the Infantry Regiments and there have been several books written on post War Germany which are probably out of print now tho you may be able to Google anything with a title similar to that. It seems a neglected area of research and would not have known my grandfather had been there but for the discovery of old German money and a vignette postcard of Cologne Cathedral and the Rhine (now unfortunately lost). Good Luck Peridot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyneside Chinaman Posted 30 May , 2010 Share Posted 30 May , 2010 Hi, The subject is covered by "The Occupation of the Rhineland 1918 - 1929" By Brigadier Sir James Edmonds. reprinted by the IWM in 1987. The attached shows tthe OOB for the March to the Rhine. regards John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
River97 Posted 30 May , 2010 Share Posted 30 May , 2010 This may be of assistance, In the history of the 2/20th Battalion, the London Regiment, on page 274, it mentions: 'Sinzenich was none to large to accommodate so strong a unit as the 2/20th had become as a result of the several drafts .......... The 5th Devonshire Regiment at Schwerfen and the 8th West Yorkshire Regiment at Kommern, were much less fortunate, though Brigade Headquarters in the chateau at Eicks had the best football ground in the neighbourhood.' By this time the Battalion had seen active service in England, France, Salonika, Egypt, Palestine, back to France and now Germany. Cheers Andy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peridot Posted 30 May , 2010 Share Posted 30 May , 2010 Hi John Thanks for posting that information and I suspect that is the book I'm thinking of tho didn't know it had been reprinted. Do you know of a way I could establish the ASC Units in Cologne during the first half of 1919 from the above info or otherwise? It would be a very useful piece in the jigsaw of no service record and would probably account for my grandfather's last six months in the army. Thanks Peridot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinWills Posted 30 May , 2010 Share Posted 30 May , 2010 The 1987 HMSO printing of the Rhine Occupation was not strictly a reprint - the originalk was a short run and not for public release. It was remaindered quite some time ago and has risen significantly in price since. I believe N&M have recently reprinted it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egbert Posted 30 May , 2010 Share Posted 30 May , 2010 What does ASC stand for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peridot Posted 30 May , 2010 Share Posted 30 May , 2010 Army Service Corps Egbert-basically logistical service troops to the army in such areas as transport and supply. Peridot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dycer Posted 30 May , 2010 Share Posted 30 May , 2010 From a rather battered map showing 29th Division's march through Belgium to Germany between 18th November 1918 and 16th December 1918. Divisional Headquarters were located at Bergisch Gladbach from 21 December 1918. 86th Brigade's Sub-Area was to the north and east 87th Brigade's Sub-Area was to the north and west of 86th Brigade's Sub-Area including Hurschend but not extending into Soling or north west to Remscheid. 88th Brigade's Sub-Area was to east of 87th Brigade including Wermelsurchen. I am not a German speaker,the map is faded and overprinted with lines showing the Divisional Boundary so I apologise if I have misspelt any of the place names. George p.s.The original owner of the Map was P41 Sgt A. Prentice,MMP,29th Division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egbert Posted 30 May , 2010 Share Posted 30 May , 2010 From a rather battered map showing 29th Division's march through Belgium to Germany between 18th November 1918 and 16th December 1918. Divisional Headquarters were located at Bergisch Gladbach from 21 December 1918. 86th Brigade's Sub-Area was to the north and east 87th Brigade's Sub-Area was to the north and west of 86th Brigade's Sub-Area including Hurschend but not extending into Soling or north west to Remscheid. 88th Brigade's Sub-Area was to east of 87th Brigade including Wermelsurchen. I am not a German speaker,the map is faded and overprinted with lines showing the Divisional Boundary so I apologise if I have misspelt any of the place names. George p.s.The original owner of the Map was P41 Sgt A. Prentice,MMP,29th Division. Hurschend meant to be HÖHSCHEID Soling meant to be SOLINGEN Wermelsurchen meant to be WERMELSKIRCHEN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayenn Posted 30 May , 2010 Author Share Posted 30 May , 2010 Thanks to all - that was quick! I now have much to read and understand! My father (who was in the Signals) sent a postcard back home, dated 14th January 1919, and because the postmark includes the code R3, this indicates that it was sent from the Army Post Office at Duren (or so I've been told). I should, probably, have mentioned this before, so, for not doing so, I apologise! I'm trying to narrow down, as much as I can, where he might have been at the time he sent the card. Thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egbert Posted 30 May , 2010 Share Posted 30 May , 2010 Peridot any more info like billeting places or so? We had a nice research here on the GWF on a telegraph unit in Cologne 1919 which was finally successful based on very limited info only . the Army Post Office at Duren (or so I've been told). Duren meant to be DÜREN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Tucker Posted 30 May , 2010 Share Posted 30 May , 2010 Can anyone tell me if the 2/4 Hampshires were part of the occupation force? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Baker Posted 30 May , 2010 Share Posted 30 May , 2010 They were indeed. They crossed the Belgian/German border on 16 December 1918 on their way that night to Recht. On Christmas Day they arrived at their destination at Mechernich. They stayed there until 23 February 1919 when going to Wermelskirchen. (War diary). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Tucker Posted 30 May , 2010 Share Posted 30 May , 2010 Thanks Chris - explains why a man I am following up is buried at Cologne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egbert Posted 30 May , 2010 Share Posted 30 May , 2010 Thanks Chris - explains why a man I am following up is buried at Cologne. Was the burial in 1919? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peridot Posted 30 May , 2010 Share Posted 30 May , 2010 Peridot any more info like billeting places or so? We had a nice research here on the GWF on a telegraph unit in Cologne 1919 which was finally successful based on very limited info only . Duren meant to be DÜREN Hello Egbert I am sorry but I don't possess any other information about my grandfather's time in Germany. I only know he was there as he told me during his lifetime and had some postcards and photographs which I saw and are now lost. Some of the photos could have been taken anywhere but there was a vignette postcard of the heads of my grandfather and three of his comrades in the top right hand corner of a picture of Cologne Cathedral and the Rhine. He also had some old German Pfennig and Mark notes and a smoking pipe with traditional wooden decorated bowl with a silver top and long stem. He was a lorry driver in the ASC and went to Germany via time in the Arras sector and also in Belgium at Passchendaele. I have no service record for him but am gradually piecing together an outline of his time in France and Germany by looking at things like Orders of Battle and the few remaining family relics and oral traditions. I would be grateful for any information and as far as I know he remained in Cologne during what would probably have been his final months in the army. Thanks Peridot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Tucker Posted 30 May , 2010 Share Posted 30 May , 2010 Yes died September 18 1919 Was the burial in 1919? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TEW Posted 30 May , 2010 Share Posted 30 May , 2010 Jayenn, Peridot, egbert, et al I have had this map of my Grandfather's (2nd IC 5th Devons) 62nd Div. for some time and not yet got round to working out all the detail but it's obviously of some relevance to Jayenn's original inquiry and probably of interest to others. The 2/20th Londons are given a location as are 526 ASC, 2/1 Vet. Sec. & 460 RE amongst others, have a good look at the key on right. I have reproduced a lo-res small version here and a larger hi-quality version (10Mb) can be downloaded via 1/6/10, I have adjusted the link below to direct to a 3Mb version instead of the 10Mb one that was causing trouble. A higher-res one is still available if anyone wants one,via PM TEW Hi Res The map is an Ordnance Survey Nov 1918, sheet 1L. Some of the terms listed under Div HQ are lost on me, I have no idea what CRE, ADMS, DADOS means. Regards TEW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egbert Posted 31 May , 2010 Share Posted 31 May , 2010 Interesting map! ADMS obviously means Administration Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harkerr@btinternet.com Posted 31 May , 2010 Share Posted 31 May , 2010 Hi All Very interesting map TEW, thanks for posting it. My grandfather was with the 62nd Divisional Artillery Column in the Army of Occupation. Your map agrees with my various sources of their locations in Germany. From A.T. Anderson's "War Services of the 62nd Divisional Artillery" of which he was head - 14th Bde RHA at Kal & Keldernich 310th Bde at Gemund & Malsbenden 312th Bde to Gemund, Nierfield & Schleven DAC HQ & No1 Section to Kal, 2 & 3 sections to Sotenich Trench Mortars to Urft Regards Richard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayenn Posted 31 May , 2010 Author Share Posted 31 May , 2010 Thanks for the image. TEW - it looks a brilliant picture but I must be doing something wrong – how do I download the 10Mb image? I go to the website, click “File”, on my web browser, and then “Save as”. I can’t see any other way of doing it but what I get downloaded is an image only 683kb in size, but it’s not very clear and I can’t read the town names. I apologise for being stupid but what am I doing wrong, please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TEW Posted 31 May , 2010 Share Posted 31 May , 2010 Jayeen, I've double checked the image and I guess photobucket resize the uploaded image, i've tried various options with no success. If you PM or email me I'll send an attachment via email, same goes for anyone else who wants one. TEW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotonmate Posted 31 May , 2010 Share Posted 31 May , 2010 TEW Abbreviations: ADMS Assistant Director Medical Services DADOS Deputy Assistant Director Ordnance Services,and, CRE Commander Royal Engineers. Sotonmate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dycer Posted 31 May , 2010 Share Posted 31 May , 2010 Was it an occupation? I well remember,being sent to Western Germany,to defend that Country,but it was stressed, before we left UK, that we were not going,to that Country, as an occupying Force. George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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