JonathanS Posted 27 May , 2004 Share Posted 27 May , 2004 hey all, I'm researching a family history for a friend and am a little stuck when it comes to these three. Unfortunately my computer is on the fritz and I'm having difficulty with the National Archives site. Can anybody tell me what units they were in? I am having trouble deciphering the Regimental Number list. George Gillies # 103 James Herbert Gillies # 505288 William Allan Gillies # 766380 - 123 Bn CEF Royal Grenadiers - I need to know if these have a War Diary tia, Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mordac Posted 27 May , 2004 Share Posted 27 May , 2004 Hi Johnathan: George Gillies # 103 - hard to pin down as the were a number of units that used this number. James Herbert Gillies # 505288 - Canadian Engineers (2nd Cable Section) William Allan Gillies # 766380 - 123 Bn CEF Royal Grenadiers - the 123rd Infantry Battalion was redesignated the 123rd Pioneer Battalion. Garth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonathanS Posted 27 May , 2004 Author Share Posted 27 May , 2004 Mordac, thanks that's exactly what I was looking for. One thing I forgot to mention is that George Gillies was (at one point?) part of a motorcylce unit/company - not sure if that is the correct term. thanks again, Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broznitsky Posted 27 May , 2004 Share Posted 27 May , 2004 George's attestation indicates he enlisted in Toronto in December 1914. The officer who signed his papers appears to me to be "Denton." I can't find an officer of this name or variations thereof. If we could determine the officer, then the unit might follow. Any guesses? Of course, you could always order his service records. That should explain all. Peter (back) in Vancouver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhill Posted 28 May , 2004 Share Posted 28 May , 2004 William Allan Gillies # 766380 - 123 Bn CEF Royal Grenadiers - the 123rd Infantry Battalion was redesignated the 123rd Pioneer Battalion. Garth The War Diaries tell us what the 123rd pioneers were doing, but we do not know for sure if William Gillies was with them at this time. Just as a exercise I checked a couple of dozen other original 123rd men. Three of them died serving with the 20th Battalion and two with the 3rd Battalion, so it seems that many of the original 123rd men transfered to infantry units. We would need more information to determine what unit this fellow actually served with at what time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonathanS Posted 28 May , 2004 Author Share Posted 28 May , 2004 thanks again for the replies I knew the pals would chime in with some interesting info. As an interesting aside - I was looking through my files and have come upon something. My great-grandfather William Scotland's Regimental # is 503739, he has the same stamp on top of his attestation papers as James Gillies # 505288 - 2nd Field Troop Canadian Engineers Overseas Draft Winnipeg. Could it be possible that these two served in the same unit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.S.Regt. Posted 28 May , 2004 Share Posted 28 May , 2004 Greetings Jonathan The number block that you are referring to starts at 503701 and ends at 506700 so both men are in that unit. The block is for M.D.#3 C.E. Trg. Dpo. #2 Cable Section. Hope this helps. Best regards N.S.Regt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhill Posted 28 May , 2004 Share Posted 28 May , 2004 Jonathan, My august colleagues have filled you in on how to convert regimental numbers to units and vice versa. I have already alluded to the difficulty of deducing exactly which unit(s) a particular soldier served with overseas. You could, of course, obtain the relevant personnel files from Ottawa, but they do not always provide this information. There are a few tricks you can use to glean a bit of information about where fellows who joined up with your fellow ended up. - The first, which I have mentioned previously, is to check other numbers in the same block back to a name and check that name in a data base of those killed. This gives a unit, which is how I deduced that some 123rd men went to the 3rd and 20th Battalions. - Another trick is to check these blocks of numbers against the Court Martials data base (not that I suspect any of your relatives of mis-behaving!). This can be easily searched using wild card characters. For example from this I can see that some 123rd men ended up in the following units: 3rd Canadian Engineers Reserve Battalion Canadian Machine Gun Corps 1st Central Ontario Regimental Depot 3rd Res. Bn 19th Bn 123rd Can. Pioneer Bn 9th Bn., CE Canadian Engineers 2nd Canadian Engineers Reserve Battalion 87th Battalion 3rd Battalion 20th Bn Canadian Forestry Corps The Cable unit men, as might be expected, ended up all over the place: Canadian Army Medical Corps CETD Can. Corps Signal Coy Canadian Engineers 12th Bn., CE HQ, 2nd District, CFC General Depot 23rd Reserve Battalion 1st Canadian Engineers Canadian Special Hospital 15th Field Coy., CE 5th Bn., CE 9th Battalion, Canadian Engineers 11th Field Coy., CE 4th Bn 2nd Tunnelling Company 3rd Canadian Railway Troops 6th Battalion, Canadian Engineers Can. Engineering Mechanical Transport Coy., CASC CE Regimental Depot 12th Canadian Railway Troops 52nd Battalion 1st Canadian Engineers Reserve Battalion Alas! I am afraid this may not be too helpful to you! One extra thing you can try is to go through the War Diaries of these Engineer units. Sapper units are much more likely to mention soldiers by name than are infantry units. It would be a major effort, however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mordac Posted 28 May , 2004 Share Posted 28 May , 2004 This gives a unit, which is how I deduced that some 123rd men went to the 3rd and 20th Battalions. Hi James: The 123rd Pioneers were broken up and the majority of the men were absorbed by the 3rd Division Engineers. Garth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mordac Posted 28 May , 2004 Share Posted 28 May , 2004 One thing I forgot to mention is that George Gillies was (at one point?) part of a motorcylce unit/company - not sure if that is the correct term. Hi Jonathan: 103 George Gillies posses a real problem. Here's a list of units that were allotted blocks of numbers that contained 103: 1-140 2nd Division Ammunition park 1-150 2nd Casualty Clearing Station 1-200 2nd Division Ammunition Column 1-320 2nd Division Signal Company 1-350 4th Field Company Canadian Engineers 1-400 2nd Heavy Battery and Ammunition Column 1-600 2nd Division Supply Column 1-661 Canadian Overseas Construction Corps 1-700 2nd Division Ammunition Column 1-750 2nd Division Train 1-850 2nd Division Engineers 1-1000 Royal Canadian Dragoons 1-1800 PPCLI (he's not listed in their nominal roll) 1-1800 8th Infantry Battalion 36-450 2nd Division Cyclist 71-105 2nd Division Ammunition Sub Park Any chance he was with a Cyclist Company instead of motorcycle unit/company? Nos. 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6 Cyclist Platoons began recruiting in Toronto in October 1914. Their block of numbers was 36-450. Garth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mordac Posted 28 May , 2004 Share Posted 28 May , 2004 Hi Jonathan: I checked soldiers with the regimental number 103 on the NAC web site. Eleven men had this number and you can identify the original units for six of these men. So, of the list of 16 possibilities (that's with the PPCLI excluded) you can drop the following six units from the list, as they have used the number 103: 2nd Division Ammunition Column 2nd Division Signal Company 4th Field Company Canadian Engineers 2nd Division Supply Column Canadian Overseas Construction Corps Royal Canadian Dragoons Garth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonathanS Posted 28 May , 2004 Author Share Posted 28 May , 2004 brilliant, this was far more than I was expecting Thanks again for all the help. I have some of thier photos so when I am finished slugging through all of this - and when I get a working scanner - I will post a couple of shots. cheers, Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now