Machine Gun Corps

[Perth Digger]

Can anyone please tell me which company of the MGC 2/Lt Emsley Ramsden was in when KIA 15/9/1916? Previously, he was 2/Ly in the Border Regiment.

Thanks

Mike

[sotonmate]

Mike

By association he may have been the leader of a crew from 141 Company MGC,as there are a group of soldiers in London Cemetery Longueval from the same Company who could have been a crew wiped out (by a shell ?) on the 15th Sept 1916.

A Sergeant and three Privates.

There might be something to confirm this in one of two Officer service records at Kew Archives with the name RAMSDEN E : WO3339/40282 (shown as 2/Lt) and WO339/94790 ( no rank).

You might also get confirmation of this from the 141 Coy War Diary,WO95/2739.

SDGW has no Company shown,and he as a Temp 2/Lt.

Could be 47 Division on the first day of Flers-Courcelette.

If you get no resolution of this send me a PM in a couple of weeks and I will look for you.

Sotonmate

[Perth Digger]

Dear S'mate

Thanks for the advice. I've had trouble replying, so apologies for the delay.

Mike

Mike

By association he may have been the leader of a crew from 141 Company MGC,as there are a group of soldiers in London Cemetery Longueval from the same Company who could have been a crew wiped out (by a shell ?) on the 15th Sept 1916.

A Sergeant and three Privates.

There might be something to confirm this in one of two Officer service records at Kew Archives with the name RAMSDEN E : WO3339/40282 (shown as 2/Lt) and WO339/94790 ( no rank).

You might also get confirmation of this from the 141 Coy War Diary,WO95/2739.

SDGW has no Company shown,and he as a Temp 2/Lt.

Could be 47 Division on the first day of Flers-Courcelette.

If you get no resolution of this send me a PM in a couple of weeks and I will look for you.

Sotonmate

[KevinBattle]

Looks as if sotonmate has a good call.

From the cemetery information, it seems as if Ramsden was one of the original burials (Plot 1A A6), whereas the 141st Company men are in slightly later rows.....

High Wood was fiercely fought over during the Battle of the Somme until cleared by 47th (London) Division on 15 September 1916. It was lost during the German advance of April 1918, but retaken the following August. The original London Cemetery at High Wood was begun when 47 men of the 47th Division were buried in a large shell hole on 18 and 21 September 1916. Other burials were added later, mainly of officers and men of the 47th Division who died on 15 September 1916

[Perth Digger]

Dear Sotonmate

This is a very old thread but I thought I'd keep you up to date (rather belatedly!). I got Ramsden's SR (WO 95 339/40282) and you're probably quite right in your surmise about a whole MG crew being killed together. Ramsden originally enlisted in the West Riding Regiment in September 1914 and was commissioned into the 9/Border Regiment in April 1915. He went overseas in March 1916.

Mike

[DaveC]

Can anyone please tell me which company of the MGC 2/Lt Emsley Ramsden was in when KIA 15/9/1916? Previously, he was 2/Ly in the Border Regiment.

Thanks

Mike

[/

Hi Mike

2/Lt Emsley Ramsden 141 MGC KIA leading an attack between Bazentin & Longueval on15/09/1916, 49, Beverley Terrace, Akroydon, Halifax, Educated Halifax Secondary School 1909 Bsc, He's Commemorated on three War Memorials in Halifax, also Commemorated in All Souls Graveyard Haley Hill Halifax (Family Grave says leading attack on High Wood) can supply photo of him and family grave. Regards DaveC

[Perth Digger]

Hi Dave

That would be terrific. Thanks very much. I have him as getting his BSc from Halifax Technical College, in Engineering, but did not know which school he attended. He had two brothers, one too young for the war; the other was POW in 1917.

Many thanks

Mike

[Patesian]

He was actually buried, but obviously the exact spot could not later be traced, or his remains could not be positively identified.

The War Diary notes: "KIA 15/09/1916 buried (map ref) about 2300 yards NE of Longueval church, High Wood."

[Perth Digger]

Thanks, Patesian. His Service Record includes the ref: buried at SL 57C.S.W.3.4.6, which I presume is where you say it is. This information is dated 29 December 1917, so the wheels of that particular department ground slowly! HIs mother complained about lack of information.

[DaveC]

Hi Dave

That would be terrific. Thanks very much. I have him as getting his BSc from Halifax Technical College, in Engineering, but did not know which school he attended. He had two brothers, one too young for the war; the other was POW in 1917.

Many thanks

Mike

Hi Mike

I've tried to attachg images but it keeps saying they are to big, if you PM with your email address i'll send them that way. Hope the info attached is of some use. Regards DaveC

DEATH OF SEC LIEUT EMSLEY RAMSDEN AT HIGH WOOD

Mr and Mrs G H Ramsden, 49Beverley Terrace, Akroydon,have received the following tribute from Major S. Chas. Haskins, respectingtheir son, Sec Lieut E Ramsden who was killed on Sept 15:- “I should have written to you before, butwe have only just been relieved for a few days from the fight. Your son fell gloriously and fearlesslyleading his section in the attack on High Wood on Sept 16. at 7 o’clock in themorning. His death was instantaneousand he has been buried in High Wood. The Padre has erected a cross over the grave. He was greatly admired by his men andbrother officers. I can assure you hewas always very happy with the London Territorials. All being great friends together and furtherunited to gain the victory we have set out for. He is a great loss to us all. I tender you my deepest sympathy. If there is anything further I can tell you,do please let me know am most anxious to help you in any way I can. Believe me yours very truly. S Chas.Haskins, Major Commanding.

The HalifaxCourier Sat 14/10/1916)

LT E RAMSDEN

Official news came to hand yesterday thatSec. Lt. Emsley Ramsden, Machine Gun Corps, had been killed in action. The wire was received by his parents at 49Beverley Terrace Akroydon, and is as follows:- “Deeply regret to inform youthat Sec. Lt. E Ramsden, MGC., was killed in action. Army Council expresses their sympathy, Secretary, War Office.” Lt Emsley Ramsden was 21 years of age, andthe son of Mr G H Ramsden. He enlistedin the West Riding Regiment at the out break of war, as a private, and receiveda commission in April, 1915. Lt Ramsdenhad a brilliant scholastic success from the Boothtown Council School he secureda scholarship for the Secondary School, and then for the TechnicalCollege. He won the Royal scholarship(engineering). Valued at £280. Hepassed with honours second class and final BSc (engineering). He then entered Messrs. Campbell’s GasEngine Works to receive his practical training, and was there upenlistment. He was also a teacher ofengineering subjects at the Technical College. Lt Ramsden went to France on March 4. 1916. Sympathy will be extended to the parents inthe loss of their son whose apparently promising future, has been so tragicallyended. Another son Wheeler HarryRamsden R.F.A. is also on Active service.

[Perth Digger]

Hi Dave

I tried to PM you but I think your box is full.

Thanks for the information. I'm very grateful.

Mike