Numbering, Royal Berkshire Regiment

[basiloxford]

Hello everyone,

I'm researching a Pte Frank Turner, 1/4th Royal Berkshire Regiment, with a service number of 200054, who was killed on the 14th of August 1916. His medal card also gives a service number of 1159, which i'm assuming is his original number.

As it seems that he served with a territorial battalion, does anyone happen to know when the number 1159 was issued?.

Barry.

[kenf48]

Charles Slaughter Regimental Number 2126 enlisted in the Territorial Force in Reading on 15th September 1914.

Thomas West Regimental Number 199 enlisted in Territorial Force for Home Service in August (His medical was on 30 August - his records are really burnt!).

Guessing your man, who according to SDGW enlisted in Abingdon, probably joined in the first two weeks of September. His date entered theatre coincides with the 1/4th Bn and SDGW has many casualties around that date from the 1/4th Bn., all with 4 digit numbers. (Incidentally, I wasn't aware they renumbered the dead, though thinking about it it makes administrative sense and keeps everything tidy!)

On the 14th August the Battalion attacked Skyline Trench but were driven back with heavy losses (Roy Westlake 'Tracing Bns on the Somme')

Prior to that they had quite a harrowing time, they were due to attack south of Beaumont-Hamel on 3 July but the operation was cancelled and they eventually went into the front line on 8th July when the it was recorded the trenches they occupied ".were waist deep in water and filled with the dead from the 31st and 56th Divisions."

They came out of the line later in the month moving up to the front again to position East of Ovillers the day before Frank was killed.

Ken

[basiloxford]

Thanks for the info Ken,

It seems from what i've found on Ancestry, that the Royal Berks numbering was all over the place.

Barry.

[purley]

Hello everyone,

I'm researching a Pte Frank Turner, 1/4th Royal Berkshire Regiment, with a service number of 200054, who was killed on the 14th of August 1916. His medal card also gives a service number of 1159, which i'm assuming is his original number.

As it seems that he served with a territorial battalion, does anyone happen to know when the number 1159 was issued?.

Barry.

1159 was issued in 1909. The first post declaration enlistments into the 4th Bn started at around 2400

Many of the dates quoted as 'enlistment dates for Territorials are often the date they rejoined and signed for Imperial Service which is why they seem to be 'all over the place'

I have details of Frank Turner who was indeed 1159/20054 but the other two quoted are news to me. 2126 was held by L T Hudson and I have no Thomas West 199 or Charles Slaughter 2126

I do have a T West of Newbury who joined the volunteers as 5529 on 14/3/1891 and could well have got a Territorial number of 199 in 1908

I have Charles David Slaughter of Binfield who enlisted 1/9/1914 and died 30/7/1916 in the 2nd R Berks.

I also have Charles Slaughter of Wokingham who was in the Labour Corps as 670159 and signed on as a regular with the Royal Berks as 37306 in 1918.

I would certainly be interested in more details of these two.

regards

John

[SteveE]

I have details of Frank Turner who was indeed 1159/20054 but the other two quoted are news to me. 2126 was held by L T Hudson and I have no Thomas West 199 or Charles Slaughter 2126

I do have a T West of Newbury who joined the volunteers as 5529 on 14/3/1891 and could well have got a Territorial number of 199 in 1908

I have Charles David Slaughter of Binfield who enlisted 1/9/1914 and died 30/7/1916 in the 2nd R Berks.

I also have Charles Slaughter of Wokingham who was in the Labour Corps as 670159 and signed on as a regular with the Royal Berks as 37306 in 1918.

I would certainly be interested in more details of these two.

John

2126 Charles Slaughter was initially Berkshire Yeomanry and not Royal Berkshire Regiment. He is the same man as Charles Slaughter 670159 Labour Corps/37306 Royal Berkshires.

15/09/1914 Attested & Embodied 2/1st Berkshire Yeomanry (#2126).

20/09/1916 Posted to 2/4th Royal Berkshire Regiment for record purposes.

30/09/1916 Transferred to 4th Res. Bn. & Posted 2nd Bn. Royal Berkshire Regiment (#37306).

19/08/1917 Posted Depot.

27/12/1917 Posted (?)

07/05/1918 Posted 3rd Bn.

10/12/1918 Transferred Labour Corps (#670159)

26/03/1919 Discharged Para.392 (xvia) K.R.

Regards

Steve

[SteveE]

Thomas West's record is not at all clear but it looks like.....

30/08/1914 Attested & Embodied Supernumerary Company 4th Bn. Royal Berkshire Regiment #99 (I think, it could be #199 but it's not clear) and later #4074.

Transferred to Royal Defence Corps (#10800)

Regards

Steve

[Paul Nixon]

Going back to 1159, as John says, he's a 1909 enlistment and at a guess, November 1909.

Paul

[purley]

Steve

many thanks for info on Slaughter - he seems to have lived a charmed life. In the casualty list published in the Berkshire Chronicle 20/4/17 he is reported as having died, then 13/7/17 he pops up as missing, finally 5/10/17 he is reported wounded. This is totally the reverse of the normal sequence of reports. I would guess that when he reappeared with minor wounds he reported back to the depot 19/8/17 and as he was now a regular rather than a territorial got moved to the 3rd Bn and then to the labour corps as unfit for any other service.

I think we can be pretty sure that your Thomas West is the same one who joined the Volunteers as #5529 14/3/1891 from Newbury, then getting a territorial number 199 or 99 in 1908. He would have been around 40 in 1914 which is why he went to a supernumerary company when he volunteered in august 1914 getting a new number 4074 and then on to the RDC

Its nice to see bits of the jigsaw fitting together

regards

John

[SteveE]

I think we can be pretty sure that your Thomas West is the same one who joined the Volunteers as #5529 14/3/1891 from Newbury, then getting a territorial number 199 or 99 in 1908. He would have been around 40 in 1914 which is why he went to a supernumerary company when he volunteered in august 1914 getting a new number 4074 and then on to the RDC

John

I'm not at all convinced that, in this instance, the #99 or #199 is a Territorial Force number from 1908. I believe it may be a 'new' number issued in August 1914 to a National Reservist enlisting for 1 year into a Supernumerary Company, you'll have more idea than most how the Royal Berkshires numbered these men but I suspect they started issuing numbers commencing at 1, the numbers being separate from the TF battalion to which they were attached.

At some stage he was issued with a new number #4074 which, I'm guessing, was probably more in line with the TF battalion's numbering but again that's something you'll have a better idea of.

Regards

Steve

[purley]

I'm not at all convinced that, in this instance, the #99 or #199 is a Territorial Force number from 1908. I believe it may be a 'new' number issued in August 1914 to a National Reservist enlisting for 1 year into a Supernumerary Company, you'll have more idea than most how the Royal Berkshires numbered these men but I suspect they started issuing numbers commencing at 1, the numbers being separate from the TF battalion to which they were attached.

At some stage he was issued with a new number #4074 which, I'm guessing, was probably more in line with the TF battalion's numbering but again that's something you'll have a better idea of.

Steve

The Berkshire National Reserve were not part of the Royal Berkshire Regiment and, although we have a few records of their doings, we have no records of any individual men or their numbers. #99 or #199 are certainly feasible numbers for a Volunteer turning into a Territorial in 1908 but then I don't have any names for the holders of either of these numbers. The Berkshire Record Office seem to have got their hands on records of the Volunteers and Militia but they are so far behind in accessioning them that I doubt we will see them within five years. #4074 is certainly in line for someone joining in late 1914, early 1915 - quoted enlistment dates seem pretty random and I do not have enough detail to detect a pattern, but I suspect that a lot of men joined their local territorial company early in the war and were not mobilised/signed the declaration for several months and this latter date is what people quote as their enlistment date although the date of joining is what determined their numbers. - a mystery I would dearly like to get to the bottom of.

I do have some records of men joining a supernumerary company with a R Berks TF number and then vanishing into the blue beyond.

regards

John

[SteveE]

John

I'm more convinced than ever that the number #99 (or #199) for Thomas West is not a 1908 Territorial number.

A search of available records on Ancestry shows that numbers were being allocated to the Supernumerary Companies independent of the T.F. Battalion that they were attached to (all 4th Bn. in this instance) on Attestation/Enlistment in 1914. They were all subsequently renumbered to a 4-digit number at some stage, date is unknown, before all transferring to the Royal Defence Corps.

I've attached a table of those records I've found. ?? indicates a number was on the record but I can't read it, interestingly there are some prefixed numbers too.

Regards

Steve