corisande Posted 19 May , 2010 Share Posted 19 May , 2010 (edited) I am researching the men who were shot on "Bloody Sunday", the day in Nov 1920 when Collin's Squad hit the "Cairo Gang". Starting at the beginning Henry James Angliss In order to gain the maximum amount of information, I would be grateful if you avoid adding your views on the overall situation regarding the Squad or the Gang, and stick to anything you can add about this particular officer Henry James Angliss. This thread is about the man not the ins and outs of Bloody Sunday The information available, even in academic articles is poor. A badly researched article entitled "Bloody Sunday, a reappraisal" by T Bowden of University of Manchester in European History Quarterly states that Angliss did not appear in Military lists till Oct 1920, which is patently wrong. London Gazette has a number of entries, see below. Henry Angliss (I have all my info on him on this link) although undoubtedly a secret service operative, has a past that can be plumbed, partly due to his unusual name 1893 circa born. I have not found his birth record. His army record says "Balmaine, Dublin" but that does not seem to exist 1901 census - not found 1908 He enlisted, from his service number, at the end of 1908 in the Scottish Rifles 1911 census gives us Private Henry Angliss of Scottish Rifles at Meeanee Barracks, Colchester. Aged 19 (ie born circa 1892) born Balmaine, Dublin 1913 A Henry Angliss married Oct/Dec 1913 to Ellen E Musk at Holborn Vol 1b p1138 and/or to Ellen C M Finnerty at Wandsworth vol 1d p1470 in Apr/Jun 1919. CWGC records husband of Ellen Angliss, of 295, Cannhall Rd., Leytonstone, London. 1914 He entered the war in France 5 Nov 1914 with 2nd Scots Rifles where he reached the rank of Corporal, then became a WOII in Highland Light Infantry, before being commissioned into Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers 1916 Oct 22. Awarded DCM, gazetted 11 Dec 1916. 1916 Nov 27 Sgt Angliss is presented with his DCM by the G.O.C. 1917 Apr 2. 2nd Lt H. Angliss, D.C.M. (R. Innis. Fus.). 15 July 1918, with seniority 2 Apr. 1917. 1918 Oct. 2. 2nd Lte. to be Lt.: R. Innis. Fus. H. Angliss, D.C.M. If one believes the information written on him, he was posted to Russia by the army. 1919 Dec. 13. Lt. H. Angliss, D.C.M. (R. Innis. Fus.), ceases to be employed with the Machine Gun Corps . Survived a billard hall assassination attempt, which I cannot find 1920 Mar 17. R. Innis. Fus., H. Angliss, D.C.M., retires, receiving a gratuity. Lieutenant Henry James Angliss in Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers died aged 27 on 21/11/1920. Details of his death are on my web page. Son of Henry Angliss, of Enniskillen If anyone can add or correct that list of facts I would be grateful. The areas I feel I should have got, but have failed to find, are his birth 1910 census his Russian service there is a 1919 LG entry about him ceasing to be in MGC, but no reference to him going in, it would be at time he could have been in Russia billiard hall attempt on his life. He was using McMahon as a cover Edited 7 September , 2020 by corisande Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotonmate Posted 19 May , 2010 Share Posted 19 May , 2010 c There is a service record at Kew for ANGLISS H under WO339/102450. These records frequently have a birth certificate enclosed. Sotonmate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corisande Posted 19 May , 2010 Author Share Posted 19 May , 2010 Thanks for the input I did find that reference, and have added it to my list of things to look up at Kew in August. Joys of living abroad However I think that was the only ref to him in their data base that I could find. Which seem a bit odd, but if he was on classified oirk, then the files may still be off limits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drumberny Posted 19 May , 2010 Share Posted 19 May , 2010 I'm sure you saw G. Angliss, Old Barracks, Cork in 1911 Irish Census. I wonder if his father Henry Angliss was a soldier here in Enniskillen. Clive Johnston, volunteer Inniskillings Museum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corisande Posted 19 May , 2010 Author Share Posted 19 May , 2010 I wonder if his father Henry Angliss was a soldier here in Enniskillen I did wonder that, but could not prove anything, mainly from lack of any real data. The 1901 Irish census is coming out in a couple of months now, and that may help. There are a couple of other Angliss in the LG who might well be related. On the surface his father would probably have been too old to have been serving with Inniskillings in 1915 to 1920 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhifle Posted 20 May , 2010 Share Posted 20 May , 2010 Hi, From the Army List Regards Mark Dec 1917 List The Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers 1ST & 2nd Bn’s 2nd Lieutenants (11) Angliss, H 2 Apr17 (attached 11th Bn) Dec 1918 List The Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers 1ST & 2nd Bn’s 2nd Lieutenants m g Angliss H D.C..M 2 Apr 17 (Employed with Machine Gun Corps) Machine Gun Corps 2nd Lieutenants Angliss, H., D.C.M., R. Innis. Fus. 2Apr.17 Dec 1919 List The Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers 1st & 2nd Bn’s Lieutenant m g Angliss H D.C..M 2 Oct 18 (Employed with Machine Gun Corps) Machine Gun Corps Lieutenant Angliss, H., D.C.M., R. Innis. Fus. 2 Oct.18 Was he called 'Paddy'? This was in The Times 21 Nov 1921 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corisande Posted 20 May , 2010 Author Share Posted 20 May , 2010 Mark Thanks for that extra info. It fills in a bit more about his time in MGC, all I had was him coming out, but never getting in! The obit is interesting. The one below him, Baggallay is another of the men shot. CAn you see from the page if there are any others on it. Looking to see if it is the families putting those there by the government. Lt Henry Angliss appeared to use two "noms de guerre" Patrick McMahon or Mahon, so to that extent h was "Paddy". But I do not know what his family called him The names of those shot that day were (the last 2 were Auxiliares, and the two before that believed technically to be civilians) Ames Angliss Baggally Bennett Dowling Fitzgerald MacLean Montgomery Newberry Price McCormack Smith Wilde Garniss Morris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corisande Posted 20 May , 2010 Author Share Posted 20 May , 2010 I'm sure you saw G. Angliss, Old Barracks, Cork in 1911 Irish Census. I wonder if his father Henry Angliss was a soldier here in Enniskillen. Clive Johnston, volunteer Inniskillings Museum. You might be able to fill me in on whether the Inniskillings were in Russia during the British Campaign there 1918/1919. It may have been that he was attached nominally to MGC at this time, and that may have been acover for intellegence work in Russia (or elsewhere) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhifle Posted 20 May , 2010 Share Posted 20 May , 2010 Hi, I do not see any other names listed. Here is some more recent discusion on Captain McCormack from Castlebar http://www.castlebar.ie/photos/old/2006/22479.htm http://www.castlebar.ie/photos/old/2006/22381.htm I also have this list of units sent to North Russia I down loaded a while ago, I can't remember the website British Military Operations 1919-1939 v.1.0 April 28, 2002 by Graham Watson The following is a selection of orders of battle of various operations carried out by the British Army in the years between the wars. All were operations of a limited nature carried out in support of particular political or international objectives. Almost all were the result of requirements of or dissatisfaction about the peace settlements of 1919-1922. NORTH RUSSIA 1919 Late in 1919 Britain sent troops to Murmansk and Archangel in northern Russia. They were part of an international force designed to protect Allied interests there during the Russian Civil War, and to offer assistance to those Russian forces fighting the Bolsheviks in that conflict. 2/10 Royal Scots 2 Royal Warwickshire 45 Royal Fusiliers [Elope Force] 46 Royal Fusiliers [Elope Force] 17 Kings Liverpool 6 Green Howards 13 Green Howards 1 East Surrey 11 Royal Sussex 2 Hampshire 1 Oxfordshire & Buckinghamshire LI 2/7 Durham LI 2 Highland LI 6 Royal Marine Bn 8 Bn Machine Gun Corps 8, 201, 252, 280 Machine Gun Companies Regards Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corisande Posted 20 May , 2010 Author Share Posted 20 May , 2010 Mark Thanks, you are a great man for the lists I missed that bit on MCG on the list of battalions in Russia when I came across it a while ago. Just shows you need a fresh pair of eyes from time to time Starting to make more sense now on his movements. With a bit of luck his service record show string it together Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhifle Posted 20 May , 2010 Share Posted 20 May , 2010 Hi, I also came across this from the Manchester Guardian 8 March 1921 Regards Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corisande Posted 20 May , 2010 Author Share Posted 20 May , 2010 Solicitors property seems to have been much more highly valued than an officer. And a Lt appears to be worth half a Col. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhifle Posted 15 June , 2010 Share Posted 15 June , 2010 Hi, This looks like him on the Long Number list. 11/27 would be for 11th Bn THE ROYAL INNISKILLING FUSILIERS.(Regimental District No. 27) Regards Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhifle Posted 15 June , 2010 Share Posted 15 June , 2010 This would be for Capt. Geoffrey Thomas Baggallay The 24 for THE SOUTH WALES BORDERERS. (Regimental District No. 24) . 41 MGC for 41st Battalion, Machine Guns Corps 1891 year of birth Regards Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhifle Posted 15 June , 2010 Share Posted 15 June , 2010 This would be for Donald Lewis MacLean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhifle Posted 15 June , 2010 Share Posted 15 June , 2010 This would be for Hugh Ferguson Montgomery Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corisande Posted 15 June , 2010 Author Share Posted 15 June , 2010 Thanks Mark Those 4 are the fellows, I have noted the details Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
museumtom Posted 15 June , 2010 Share Posted 15 June , 2010 Balmaine may be Ballymun just north of Finglas and south of Dublin Airport. Regards. Tom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corisande Posted 15 June , 2010 Author Share Posted 15 June , 2010 Thanks Tom Could be. I need to get his marriage cert now, to see if that gives me his parents. He was married in London, but the records on Ancestry are just Protestant, so his Catholic marriage is not there. I will be in Kew in August and will look up service record then, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corisande Posted 15 June , 2010 Author Share Posted 15 June , 2010 Mark If I could trouble you again on Angliss, is there a year of birth for him (perhaps to the left of the snippet you have posted). I am struggling to find his birth, and if there was a quoted year, rather than me believing it to be 1893 plus or minus one year from census Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhifle Posted 15 June , 2010 Share Posted 15 June , 2010 Hi, Sorry there is no date of birth given. Regards Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corisande Posted 15 June , 2010 Author Share Posted 15 June , 2010 Thanks Mark, I rather feared that was the answer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveE Posted 15 June , 2010 Share Posted 15 June , 2010 This would be for Capt. Geoffrey Thomas Baggallay The 24 for THE SOUTH WALES BORDERERS. (Regimental District No. 24) . 41 MGC for 41st Battalion, Machine Guns Corps 41 will be for The Welsh Regiment, not 41st MGC Regards Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveE Posted 15 June , 2010 Share Posted 15 June , 2010 Found this in "Record of Service of Solicitors and Articled Clerks with His Majesty's forces, 1914-1919" available here.... http://www.archive.org/details/recordofserviceo00soli GEOFFREY THOMAS BAGGALLAY. Articled to A. Bathurst, 48 Lincoln's Inn Fields. Mobilised Aug. 1914 as Private, 28th Batt. County of London Regt. (The Artists). Promoted Sergeant Dec. 1914, gazetted Temp. 2nd Lieut. Welch Regt. May 9, 1915, promoted Lieut. South Wales Borderers Aug. 1917, Capt. Aug. 1919. Served in France. Wounded May 24, 1915, and Nov. 20, 1917. Regards Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corisande Posted 15 June , 2010 Author Share Posted 15 June , 2010 Ok thanks So that I have this right, I assume the entry 41 MGC 24 means that 1. He was in Welsh Regt 2. then MGC 3. then South Wales Borderers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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