connaught rangers 5th battalion

[ennyldrawllim]

I am researching Ernest Allott who died on 21 Aug 1915. service number 3141 . He was a private in the Connaught Rangers 5th battalion, but was actually from Rotherham. I understand from other posts on this forum that he probably signed up with Yorks and Lancs and then the battalion was merged with the Connaught Rangers. I am struggling to find any info about which regiment he did originally sign up with and when? I know he died in Gallipoli and is commemorated on the Helles Memorial but don't know where to look to find out anything else. Any pointers to further my research would be gratefully received.

[mhifle]

I am researching Ernest Allott who died on 21 Aug 1915. service number 3141 . He was a private in the Connaught Rangers 5th battalion, but was actually from Rotherham. I understand from other posts on this forum that he probably signed up with Yorks and Lancs and then the battalion was merged with the Connaught Rangers. I am struggling to find any info about which regiment he did originally sign up with and when? I know he died in Gallipoli and is commemorated on the Helles Memorial but don't know where to look to find out anything else. Any pointers to further my research would be gratefully received.

Hi,

Looking at his regimental number, he most likley joined the 5th Battalion in Sept 1914.

Here are some numbers and dates issued for the 5th Battalion, The Connaught Rangers.

3030 1914 Sept 1

3159 1914 Sept 4

3167 1914 Sept 4

There is a comment by Sergeant John McIlwain in his journal in March 1915. That he was very surprised to find that his platoon ‘consisted largely of insubordinate Yorkshire men’. He was Platoon Sergeant of no.16 Platoon, ‘D’ Company then posted to no.14 Platoon which was made up of Yorkshire men. A large number of this English draft seemed to come from Rotherham and many were miners. Significantly, many were of Irish descent.

Regards Mark

[ennyldrawllim]

Hi,

Looking at his regimental number, he most likley joined the 5th Battalion in Sept 1914.

Here are some numbers and dates issued for the 5th Battalion, The Connaught Rangers.

3030 1914 Sept 1

3159 1914 Sept 4

3167 1914 Sept 4

There is a comment by Sergeant John McIlwain in his journal in March 1915. That he was very surprised to find that his platoon 'consisted largely of insubordinate Yorkshire men'. He was Platoon Sergeant of no.16 Platoon, 'D' Company then posted to no.14 Platoon which was made up of Yorkshire men. A large number of this English draft seemed to come from Rotherham and many were miners. Significantly, many were of Irish descent.

Regards Mark

[ennyldrawllim]

Thanks for that Mark.

Its my first time using a forum of any kind and i did'nt know what to expect. A helpful response so quickly is great.

Thanks again

LynneW

[mhifle]

Hi Lynne

Welcome to the forum, everyone here tends to be very helpful with information.

Mark

[roughdiamond]

Lynne

Are you aware of this book?

http://www.naval-military-press.com/record...nuary-1916.html

It won't give you any detail of his death, but it will give you an idea of the battles he'd have been involved in, including great detail on the action to capture the Kabak Kuyu wells in which he was killed, along with 3 Officers and 42 other men with 49 missing.

It also states in the book that on the 11th Sept 1914 350 recruits from Pontefract who'd originally enlisted in the Yorks & Lancs, joined the 5th Bn, that'd tie in with Mark's post.

Sam

[mhifle]

Hi,

Here is a rough timeline for the 5th Battalion at this time.

Regards Mark

News of impending war officially reached Galway the evening of August 4th 1914 when a telegram arrived at Renmore Barracks. Lieutenant Colonel Henry Francis Jourdain immediately walked into the orderly room, unlocked the safe and began to send out mobilization orders around the province. By the end of October 1914, due to the high casualty rates, Renmore Barracks was struggling to supply troops for the 1st and 2nd Battalions, The Connaught Rangers. Through foresight in keeping some stocks of clothing, equipment, and rifles on hand the whole Battalion was completely armed and equipped.

The majority of men who had seen continuous 3 years service in South Africa where sent to the 2nd Battalion at Aldershot. Some who had completed their Reserve service where sent back to join the 5th Battalion and where what was needed to help form the new Battalion.

Each battalion had a Regular or retired Regular Commanding Officer, a Regular Adjutant, and the 4 Company Commanders had as a rule some military experience. The Quartermaster, Regimental Sergeant Major, and Quartermaster Sergeant were usually pensioners who had rejoined. Company Sergeant Majors and Quartermaster Sergeants were obtained by promoting NCO’s who had transferred from the Regular battalion

The 5th Battalion left Kilworth Camp, Fermoy in two trains for Dublin 9 Oct 1914.

They arrived Dublin 2.15 pm and took over the Royal Barracks, Arbour Hill and Horse Square

The Battalion strength was, 29 Officers, 1 Warrant Officer, 83 NCO’s, 485 trained men and 519 Recruits.

Total all ranks 1117 6 Nov 1914

Major A W H Bell appointed second in command 9 Nov 1914

Until the end of 1914, the bulk of the work done consisted of elementary drill, platoon and company training and lectures, with a route march once or twice a week. A recruits’ musketry course was also fired. Plenty of night operations were carried out, 2 evenings a week as a rule.

The establishment of the Battalion was increased by 50 Rank and File by War Office Letter dated 2 Dec 1914

Total all ranks 1,157

Recruit training was complete. All men of the Battalion who had not been guilty of misbehaviour were granted free warrants to their homes for 7 days to those domiciled in England, and for 6 days to those domiciled in Ireland, as a special concession during the Christmas leave period. 11 Dec 1914.

They had to take their rifle on leave with a certain number of rounds.

5 week course of Company training under their own Officers and NCO’s started 18 Dec 1914

All companies had completed musketry training before the end of 1914

The Battalion strength was, 41 Officers, 1 Warrant Officer, 96 NCO’s, 800 trained men and 173 Recruits.

Total all ranks 1,111 9 Jan 1915

In Command Major Jonrdain, (temp. Lt.-Col.) H. F. N

Major 2nd in Command. Bell, A. W. I, Res, of Off.

Major Forth, C. T. W., r e t. Ind. Army

Major Nolan-Ferrall, H . J. (temp.) (Capt. Conn. Rang.)

Captain. Money, N. C. K., 22 Punjabis

Captain Hog, A. S Res. of Off.

Captain Callaghan, G. F

Captain Armstrong, Sir A. H. Bt. (temp.) (Hon. Lt .in Army)

Captain Webber, A. (temp.)

Captain Burke, F .C. (temp.)

Lieutenant Massy, G. J B.E

Lieutenant Lewis,. S. H

Lieutenant Burke. J. H. N. H.. Reserve Of Officers.

Lieutenant O'Connor, E. (temp.)

Lieutenant Bond, B. W. (temp.)

Lieutenant Martin, R. R. (temp.)

Lieutenant Blake, A. J. W. (temp.)

2nd Lieutenant Kelly, D. P. J. (temp.)

2nd Lieutenant Charlton, F. J. (temp.)

2nd Lieutenant O'Grady, de C. (temp.)

2nd Lieutenant Acton, O. H. (temp.)

2nd Lieutenant Cartmel-Robinson, J. W. (temp.)

2nd Lieutenant Lee, G. B. (temp.)

2nd Lieutenant Tweedy, O. M. (temp.)

2nd Lieutenant Kearney, A. J. (temp.)

2nd Lieutenant Mahony, A. S t (temp.)

2nd Lieutenant Martin, T. S. P. (temp.)

2nd Lieutenant Mortimer, G. (temp.)

2nd Lieutenant Fogarty, M. G. (temp.)

2nd Lieutenant Godber, H. T. (temp.)

2nd Lieutenant Kean, T. A. (temp.)

2nd Lieutenant Holmes, A. C (temp.)

2nd Lieutenant Shaw, R. J. H. (temp.)

2nd Lieutenant Johnson, T. W. G. (temp.)

2nd Lieutenant Bennett, G. R. (temp.)

2nd Lieutenant Cowan, D. J. (temp.)

2nd Lieutenant Harvey, C. F .B.{temp.)

Adjutant Lieutenant Mallng, (temporary Captain.)H. B. W

Quarter Master Lieutenant Farrell P

Battalion training started in Dublin 18 Jan 1915

Brigade training started with the Division brought together 1 week after Battalion training 25 Jan 1915

Battalion on a route march for Naas en route to the Curragh Camp for Brigade training 2 Feb 1915

Entered Naas with A and B Companies billeted in the Gaol. 300 men in the Town Hall and the remainder in the premises of Mr. J. Whelan’s and Mr. M. Fitzsimons

From the local newspaper in the town of Naas, 6 Feb 1915.

Brigade field days, brigade route marches and brigade night operations were the order of the day throughout February, and a second course of musketry was fired.

During March combined operations were conducted, as a rule twice a week and ordinary work continued.

Quarter Master Sergeant Brook and 102 NCO’s and men proceeded to join the 3rd Battalion at Kinsale as medically unfit for service abroad 15 March 1915

5th Battalion issued with 1914 equipment and the short Enfield rifle from 18th to 20th March 1915

11 NCO’s and men proceeded to join the 3rd Battalion at Kinsale 23 March 1915 4 of these NCO’s were sent to relieve the 2 Sergeants and 2 Corporals from the Expeditionary Force to be attached to the Battalion for instructional purposes.

At this time in April a stringent medical examination removed all those who were considered too old or infirm for active service, and they were sent to the reserve battalions of their unit.

5th Battalion left the Curragh in two trains and departed from the North Wall, Dublin for Basingstoke via Liverpool, on a Harwich and Hook of Holland liner. The Companies carried small green flags, which bore the national emblem on them.

Presents given out consisting of cigarettes, pipes, chocolate, and matches were handed out to the men by a “Committee of Irish Ladies” 4 May 1915.

A German submarine had been reported to have been seen near Holyhead that morning but the crossing proved to be uneventful.

5th Battalion arrived at Hackwood Park, Basingstoke, in Hampshire at noon for training. 5 May 1915

At Basingstoke the Battalion was inspected and watched at work by the staff of the Aldershot Training Centre, and were found wanting in the skills of bombing and this was practiced in Hackwood Park. Bayonet fighting was practised and special machine gun and sniper training took place at Bordon.

First route march in great heat of that summer and many men fell out Friday 7 May 1915

Big Divisional day of field operations from 8:30am to 5:30pm, it was very hot 11 May 1915

The battalion marched out at 9:00am for 3 days operations against the 13th Division from Aldershot. Billeted that night in Greywell 12 May 1915

Rouse at 5:00am, raining steadily. Marching all day in the rain. Operations cancelled due to weather and marched back to camp at 4:30pm 13 May 1915

Most of day battalion spent drying out clothes and equipment 14 May 1915

Battalion on field operations again 19 May 1915

Battalion returned to camp 24 May 1915

Short course of musketry on the Ash Ranges, Aldershot 22 May 1915

5th Battalion Paraded before His Majesty the King at Hackwood Park 28 May 1915

At a rehearsal of the Inspection, the Dublin Fusiliers had endeavoured to vary the monotony by playing “St Patrick’s Day,” but the fury of the Connaught Rangers, who share the right of playing this tune with the Irish Guards alone, was so intense that it was abandoned.

5th Battalion inspected by Lord Kitchener 1 June 1915

Battalion on 3 days of operations around Thatcham. A Concert was held in the Market Place in the evening 2 June 1915

Battalion on the move by 2am attacked by Engineers at great hill near Kingsclere 3 June 1915

Breakfast at 5am. Marched back to camp 10am. It was the hottest day of the year so far. 4 June 1915

Another 3 day operation, weather still very hot. Bivouac near Hook. 9 June 1915

Extensive operations near Mortimer which much marching around the roads 10 June 1915

Reveille 3am. Marched off 6am. Then back to camp 11 June 1915

More manoeuvres at South Warnborough, Holybourn and Alton. Innocent civilians arrested as suspected spies about the camp 17 June 1915

Official notification of their move to the Dardanelles received 2 July 1915

This was to throw an enormous amount of work upon officers and N.C.O.’s. Pay lists were closed and balanced, and sent with the cash books to the Regimental Paymaster, and any other paperwork which had not already been sent to the officer in charge of records were consigned to him.

Helmets and Khaki Drill clothing was issued between 1 to 4 July 1915

In the rainy evening 6 drivers with 9 pack animals proceeded to Keyham Dockyard, Devonport by train 12:25pm 6 July 1915

Battalion Head Quarters with A, B and part of C Company left by train for Keyham Dockyard, Devonport 9pm 8 July 1915

Captain B R Cooper, 11 Officers, and 159 NCO’s and men of ‘A’ Company proceeded to Liverpool to embark on SS ‘Mauretania’.11pm 8 July 1915

Major Nolan Ferrall with remainder of C Company and D Company with 1 Sergeant and 6 men from 6th Battalion Leinster Regiment, and 4 men from 10th Hampshire Regiment left by train for Keyham Dockyard, Devonport 11:40pm 8 July 1915

Units were so subdivided for entraining purposes that there was little ceremony and less music at the departure. They paraded in the dark, marched through the empty echoing streets of the silent town.

The ‘Carmania’ could be seen in dock being repaired and repainted which had fought and sunk the ‘Cap Trafalgar’ on 14 Sept 1914

Battalion arrived at Keyham Dock Devonport carrying kit bags at 6:15am 9 July 1915

Every battalion contained at least one officer who had taken a draft to India which helped make things run smoothly.

5th Battalion Departed Devonport on H.M .Transport ‘Bornu’, 1:15pm 9 July 1915

They passed by the Carmania in dock for repairs after its battle with the Cap Trafalgar which had been sunk on 14 Sept 1914

H.M.T. Bornu, Elder Dempst Line. It was a dirty boat with its lower decks caked in palm oil from when it operated as a West African trader. (It finally sank in a storm off the coast of Portugal).. It made 10 knots an hour.

The transport was escorted by HMS Medea an ex-Greek 3 funneled M Type destroyer and HMS Mansfield a Destroyer ‘M’ Class, of 1057 tons.

Armed with, Guns; 3-4 inch.

Anti Aircraft., 1 Machine Gun.

Torpedo Tubes: 4-21 inch in pairs.

Crew of 76.

Both acted as a Torpedo escort until 10 July, 1915.

H.M.T. Bornu passed by the Ushant Light and HMS Medea and HMS Mansfield returned to Devonport. Light SSW breeze, sea smooth 10 Jul 1915

It made slow progress of 10 knots through the Bay of Biscay. Tobacco and cigarettes were served out to the men every other day. It only managed 213 miles per day. The weather was generally fine and occasionally showery through the Bay of Biscay.

The danger from submarines caused the ship to hold a zig zag course through out the voyage.

Course SSW. Weather fine, Wind NNE and sea calm 11 Jul 1915

Course altered to south. Weather dull and showery, rough sea. Northerly wind 12 Jul 1915

Weather bright and calm, light North wind 13 Jul 1915

Weather fine and calm, wind SSE. Transport passed by Gibraltar from 7pm to 7:40pm. They could see the town’s lights glowing brightly in the dusk Resumed the voyage as the town was lighting up 14 Jul 1915

From the straits they held close to the African coast until leaving it to make for Malta.

Sea was smooth. Ship slowed down to ‘slow ahead’ due to thick fog from 5am to 1:30pm 15 Jul 1915

Weather bright and fine and sea smooth. Transport continued eastwards 16 Jul 1915

Weather bright and fine, transport was off Tunis at 7pm 17 Jul 1915

No 3879 Private Mathew Whyte died of pneumonia at 4:20pm and was buried at sea at 6:15pm Sunday 18 Jul 1915 He was the first battalion casualty. Passed by Pantelaria in the forenoon.

The weather for the remainder of the journey through the Mediterranean was bright and calm with a smooth sea.

Arrived of the Island of Gozo at 4am 19 Jul 1915

Reached Malta at 8am, and moved into the Grand Harbour where the coaling was interrupted at 6pm by orders to proceed to Alexandria at once, 19 Jul 1915

The transport arrived at Alexandria at 9am, and the boom had to be lifted to allow them in. Alexandria was still a place of oriental mystique and also a crucial command centre 23 Jul 1915.

The transport initially anchored in the outer harbour at 9am. In the evening the transport was taken into the quay. No one allowed ashore. Local newsboys scrambled aboard with papers hot from the press 23 Jul 1915

An Embarkation Officer arrived onboard with instructions for the Orderly Room Sergeant, Quarter Master Sergeant John Heaney to proceed with 4 store men and all base kits to the Mustapha Barracks.

All vehicles except the water carts and cookers, with the base kits were unloaded at 7am. The Quarter Master obtained necessaries to makeup deficiencies. The Battalion was ordered to march through the town to demonstrate that there were still plenty of British troops left. Coaling took place all night 24 Jul 1915

The Battalion was ordered to march through the town to demonstrate that there were still plenty of British troops left. The drums and fifes played most of the march, but the locals began to run across between the drums, at which the Sergeant Major, a splendid man in physique and in every other way, caught hold of several who attempted it, and flung them heavily to one side. They soon gave up trying to break ranks. It was at first thought the Battalion was to be kept in Egypt or sent to Aden, but the Battalion went on to Mudros at 6am Weather was fine and smooth 25 Jul 1915

5th Battalion proceeded to the Dardanelles 25 July 1915

The 5th Battalion was part of 29th Brigade attached to the ANZAC forces and landed at ANZAC Cove on 6 Aug 1915.

Landed at Mudros 29 Jul 1915.

Embarked on HMS ‘Clacton’ for ANZAC cove. 5 Aug 1915

A total of 25 Officers, 1 Medical Officer and 748 Rank and File.

Landed at ANZAC Cove 6 Aug 1915

Shipped ashore at night to newly constructed trenches and caves to conceal them from the Turks.

For the next seven weeks the 5th Battalion Connaught Rangers fought desperately in the heat and misery of the Gallipoli Peninsula described by a war correspondent of the London Times. Harry Nevision and took part in actions at .

‘Lone Pine. They were ordered to support Australian troops in a diversionary attack on the fourth day of the battle at Lone Pine. When they were ordered into the front line of trenches they found them floored with dead, in some places several feet deep, and the fighting had to be carried on over these dead bodies.

Sari Bair.

Hill 60 & Kabak Kuyu, which involved severe, hand-to-hand fighting for some water wells. Two all out attacks on the Turkish strong points on Hill 60 on August 21 and 28, 1915 resulted in very heavy casualties for the battalion. They fought alongside the ANZACs and Gurkhas. The Australians described the attack of the Irishmen on Hill 60 as the finest they had ever seen in the war. The Irish battalion had four hundred metres of open ground to run. The Turks opened fire from the wells and from Hill 60 at once. None of the Irishmen fired a shot, they ran silently. The Turks withstood the wild charge for a minute. Then they either ran in panic or they were dead. On the hillside, Irish and Australian dead lay so thickly that it looked as though they had fallen under a magic spell of sleep. They were buried a week later when the hill was finally captured. ‘

[archangel9]

http://www.naval-military-press.com/record...nuary-1916.html

It won't give you any detail of his death, but it will give you an idea of the battles he'd have been involved in, including great detail on the action to capture the Kabak Kuyu wells in which he was killed, along with 3 Officers and 42 other men with 49 missing.

I don't want to hijack this thread but does this book contain anything not covered in the official history by Jourdain and Fraser? I have held off on buying the book thinking that the official history probably covers everything but see now it is greatly reduced in price at the moment.

John

[mhifle]

I don't want to hijack this thread but does this book contain anything not covered in the official history by Jourdain and Fraser? I have held off on buying the book thinking that the official history probably covers everything but see now it is greatly reduced in price at the moment.

John

Hi John,

I found thst it contains quite a bit of more detail, and alot more names mentioned including Other Ranks, I was surprised to find my Great Grandfather was mentioned by name. Its worth getting if you are interested in the 5th Battalion.

Regards Mark

[archangel9]

Hi John,

I found thst it contains quite a bit of more detail, and alot more names mentioned including Other Ranks, I was surprised to find my Great Grandfather was mentioned by name. Its worth getting if you are interested in the 5th Battalion.

Regards Mark

Mark,

Will order it immediately!! Cheers

John

[ennyldrawllim]

Thanks for all the info. I love this forum idea. Wonder why I never joined sooner. Hopefully i'll be able to be a giver of info as well as a reciever some day. Although based on how much i know at the minute, i doubt it!!

Cheers Lynne.

[mhifle]

Hi,

Would this be your man? 1911 Census.

Address: 11 Peashill Street Rawmarsh

County: Yorkshire (West riding)

Name Relation Condition/Yrs married Sex Age Birth Year Occupation Where Born

ALLOTT, Ernest Head Married M 22 1889 Trammer Below Ground Yorks Rotherham

ALLOTT, Rosezilla Wife Married F 20 1891 Yorks Rotherham

ALLOTT, Isidora Daughter F 2 1909 Yorks Rotherham

JUDSON, John Lodger Married M 36 1875 Bricklayer On Surface Yorks Rotherham

JUDSON, Lavinia Boarder Married 10 years F 31 1880 Yorks Rotherham

JUDSON, Annie Boarder F 5 1906

JUDSON, Nellie Boarder F 1 1910

[ennyldrawllim]

thats amazing. yes it is. there can't be more than one "Rosezilla" married to an Ernest Allott can there?

thank you so much.

[gilly100]

thats amazing. yes it is. there can't be more than one "Rosezilla" married to an Ernest Allott can there?

thank you so much.

HI All

Ian Gill here from Bali, Indonesia where I am adding my final touches to the history of the 10th Light Horse Regiment AIF for the 1914-15 period. This unit also fought hard at Hill 60 from 1am 29 August , but I am very much wanting to mention some of the 5th CR's who were decorated for their gallantry at Hill 60 in particular. I do not have access to any 5th CR's unit history or 10th Irish Division, so anyone who might have a list of officers and men awarded for their gallantry at Hill 60 I would be most pleased to hear from them so I can add this info to my book to give some balance to who fought at Hill 60. I rate the New Zealand Mounted Rifles Brigade very highly in this series of actions from 21 August and think also that the 5th CR's did some fine work. Did a party of 5th CR's also reach the well at Susak Kuyu on 21 August, ahead of the Gurkhas who had been assigned its capture? I know the Connaughts secured the more southern well of Kabak Kuyu before fighting on Hill 60 itself until 28 August.

I can also be contacted on

igiangill@gmail.com

Cheers

Ian Gill (formerly of Perth, Western Australia)

[mhifle]

Hi,

These are from 'Record of the 5th (Service) Battalion The Connaught Rangers'.

Regards Mark

Hi,

These are from 'Record of the 5th (Service) Battalion The Connaught Rangers'.

Regards Mark

PtrII

[mhifle]

Hi,

A letter by Lt Col Jourdain about this incident.

Regards Mark

[mhifle]

2nd note