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The Great War (1914-1918) Forum

Remembered Today:

Classic Great War items for sale....


wainfleet

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TT: hijacked - yes; surprised - no, but unhappy about it nonetheless. My relatively modest but (IMHO) good quality collection keeps on rising in value, but I too take no pleasure in that. It's fine for people like me who can afford it (just), but it's reaching the point where an ordinary bloke with 2 kids and a mortgage can't afford to buy that link with the past, which is a great pity. What started out as a collecting interest for ordinary people is becoming one for the well-heeled. There's something obscene about that, given that this is about the sacrifice made by ordinary people in the first place.

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Wainfleet..agreed. Im in the same boat!!

Could always take up golf.... :o

TT

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Golf's expensive too...and boating...shooting....miltary vehicles....flying.....fishing etc etc

Must be something about hobbies and suppliers.

Tocemma

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we as collectors set the prices, dealers can only ask. Now, what I need to do is make a lot of money enabling someone elses hobby so I can indulge mine! Just like military dealers do :P

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Collecting for the long haul seems to be the trick.....a sort of dollar cost averaging (or rationalizing). My first cammo'd stahlhelm cost $12 in 1966 (and my father chewed my a*s for being frivilous enough to buy it). My first pickelhaube (Prussian M1895) was $35 in 1972. My first military vehicle (a 1941 White M-2 halftrack, complete and running) cost $750 in 1980. At the time they all seemed ridiculosly expensive and I felt that I could not justify spending that sort of money on a 'hobby'. But I took the advice of an older friend who had been collecting since he got out of the Marines in 1946. He told me, "Bill, you can always come up with money, but that helmet probably won't pass your way again. And even if it does, as long as the government keeps the printing presses going night and day it will cost you a lot more down the road." Another bit of advice the same man gave me was to try and buy things that you can't immediately afford on lay-away. Most dealers (and many fellow collectors) will allow you to pay over time, usually without interest, without having to run up your Visa or go to the bank (not that they'd loan you money now anyway).

That prices keep going up is reassuring in at least one respect.....it shows that a growing number of people are fascinated with the Great War.

Cheers, BIll

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we as collectors set the prices, dealers can only ask.

Yes and no, as one wealthy collector can distort the market for the rest. Rarer RFC material is now phenomenally expensive since Peter Jackson - director of Lord of the Rings etc - started hoovering up quality items. Similarly, while always expensive, VCs were almost affordable until Lord Ashcroft turned his attention to them. Ditto Saatchi and Hirst in the Brit Art market, which has now fallen back heavily since he stopped.

One rich collector pays an unreal price, and then dealers assume/ guess that everyone else, less well resourced, should be obliged to pay the same.

Bets wishes,

GT.

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But should the well healed collector pass away and no replacement will the value drop?

If I wanted for example a 7 Manchester City Pals s/t to complete a collection and had searched high and low with no success and then one appears at auction or overpriced on a web site I would pay over the odds. Unless the trend is repeated does one farcical price paid set the market value? I dont necessarily know the answer.

The advice Bill recieved holds true and was even given to me just before Xmas when I bought an overpriced item from a dealer and told him so. In the four months since similar and less quality items are now selling atthe price I paid so fromn an investment point of view I won. But not good for enlarging the collection.

Regards

TT

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I guess part of the problem is that the market is so organised today. Most of the dealers who, quite literally, used to sell out of the back of a van, now have websites with set prices and not much room for negotiation. It is easy, even for those lower down the food chain, to see what the big boys are asking and then to follow suit.

Ebay has killed the 'junk shop' where many bargains were to be had at one time. Even Oxfam sorts through its militaria these days!

This trend has been observed in other collecting areas such as railway relics. The huge prices achieved in recent years for locomotive nameplates, has encouraged a growth in prices across the board. Awareness amongst sellers of all antiques has also increased because of the ease with which items can now be identified. We can all be experts with the click of a mouse.

Tocemma

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A similar thing applied with the insignia of the three Birmingham Battalions of the Royal Warwickshire Regiment; a completely spurious scale of relative scarcity was concocted by dealers rising from the 1st to the 3rd. As one said to me (I forget the prices, but they are now anachronistic) "14th Bn cap badge £x. 15th Bn x times 2. 16th Bn? I'll call you and you make me an offer, but it'd better be above x times three." When such formulae apply, it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

THere is never a housing market style crash in prices, but they can and do fall back as fashions change.

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I think that once the word '' RARE ' comes into a sale the price goes crazy, just look at the christmas tin on Ebay at the moment, admitted it has a cloth flash but £250 with two days to go,!!!! the famous word's if someone wants it they will pay the price. What if we see an item that we have been after for a long time do we buy it or walk away saying I am not paying that price then regret it when we get home. Who is to blame ? the seller or the buyer ?. I have £ 700 saved for a tunic / jacket and have been told it is not enough, I could stretch to £ 1000 if I sold something else but do I really want too. Is collecting in the blood or waste of money and should we just look at the WW1 items in the museum's.

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http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/RARE-First-World-War...=item1e5b80a16b

£210 for a last pattern denim type soft cap with KRRC badge and pair of ID discs.

Plenty of time to go to.

TT

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I think I need to go to spec savers as the price on the broadie with cover was £1,850 is there IDIOTS out there who would actualy pay that.

Dan

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I think I need to go to spec savers as the price on the broadie with cover was £1,850 is there IDIOTS out there who would actualy pay that.

Dan

Yes there, just wait, this is about double the typical price for these now, but when it sells that will be the new price, it is likely 4 times, maybe more, than what he paid for it too. There's a reason he's gone from saturday stall holder in cambden to owning a country house in the past dozen years. He has what we collectors want and more of us are willing to pay more for things we want. And it seems the more things cost the more people there are around to pay it. There are cheaper things for people to collect in the militaria field, it just often isn't what appeals to collectors. There is plenty of American WW I groupings around for a fraction of Brit prices, trunks full of kit and paperwork, uniforms all patched and painted for a few hundred dollars. If they were commonwealth and they turned up - retirement time! why not connect to the great war via the US effort???? different cultural appeal....perceived rarity, nobody eles is doing it. etc.etc. I wish I had never ruined a raft load of US tiger stripe Vietnam Cammo uniforms playing paintball in the 80's in HS, but it was what was in surplus stores near us, now they are $1000.00 dollar items and climbing, thanks to me and my mates....

I'm sorry, but collectors do set the prices, even the odd mad one who pays an 'exceptional' price - it raises the floor. You never see dealers having sales, in fact teh longer something sits they will at times take it off afor a while and then bring it back with an even higher price.

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http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/RARE-First-World-War...=item1e5b80a16b

£210 for a last pattern denim type soft cap with KRRC badge and pair of ID discs.

Plenty of time to go to.

TT

Hello TT,

Is it just me (or my crummy laptop) or does the relatively pristine interior wear NOT match the exterior shredding? Just a thought..................Cheers, Bil

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I'm sorry, but collectors do set the prices, even the odd mad one who pays an 'exceptional' price - it raises the floor. You never see dealers having sales, in fact teh longer something sits they will at times take it off afor a while and then bring it back with an even higher price.

Must agree. But as you can't fight it, you would do well take advantage of it. As the vulgar business of 'profit' has already entered this thread I'd like to add that with the world economy crumbling and paper/E money in jeopardy, I'd put it to you that investing in the right Great War militaria is about as safe an investment as you'll find. It's portable, requires little upkeep, is non-taxable, is not tied to any currency or economy, not likely to be banned by gov't (as say firearms, edged weapons, etc.) and in addition to securing some of your hard earned from the greedy b*****ds on Wall Street (The City) or DC (Parliament), you have the satisfaction of knowing you've helped preserve history until the time comes (after having enjoyed it immensely) for you to pass it on (most likely at a profit) to another who will do the same. Can't say that about many other assets.

Cheers, Bill

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Awareness amongst sellers of all antiques has also increased because of the ease with which items can now be identified. We can all be experts with the click of a mouse.

Tocemma

Hello TocEmma,

Right you are! I recently found something which caught my fancy way off the paved road in a small Mexican village. Before I could get a price from the vendor his young daughter produced a laptop and went eBay USA to search for comparables.....even had the cheek to ask me how the item was spelled in English!

Cheers, Bill

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Yes there, just wait, this is about double the typical price for these now, but when it sells that will be the new price, it is likely 4 times, maybe more, than what he paid for it too. There's a reason he's gone from saturday stall holder in cambden to owning a country house in the past dozen years. He has what we collectors want and more of us are willing to pay more for things we want. And it seems the more things cost the more people there are around to pay it. There are cheaper things for people to collect in the militaria field, it just often isn't what appeals to collectors. There is plenty of American WW I groupings around for a fraction of Brit prices, trunks full of kit and paperwork, uniforms all patched and painted for a few hundred dollars. If they were commonwealth and they turned up - retirement time! why not connect to the great war via the US effort???? different cultural appeal....perceived rarity, nobody eles is doing it. etc.etc. I wish I had never ruined a raft load of US tiger stripe Vietnam Cammo uniforms playing paintball in the 80's in HS, but it was what was in surplus stores near us, now they are $1000.00 dollar items and climbing, thanks to me and my mates....

I'm sorry, but collectors do set the prices, even the odd mad one who pays an 'exceptional' price - it raises the floor. You never see dealers having sales, in fact teh longer something sits they will at times take it off afor a while and then bring it back with an even higher price.

Well Scott I am guilty of being a collector but NEVER do I encourage prices such as these, I mainly collect medals to Macrae and there is a group on ebay I liked but I pulled out at £335 its a Trio with GSM bar to Palistine and a LSGC Colonial Police medal way to pricey for me . I will leave it to the fools.

Dan

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"I think that once the word '' RARE ' comes into a sale the price goes crazy, just look at the christmas tin on Ebay at the moment, admitted it has a cloth flash but £250 with two days to go,!!!! the famous word's if someone wants it they will pay the price. What if we see an item that we have been after for a long time do we buy it or walk away saying I am not paying that price then regret it when we get home. Who is to blame ? the seller or the buyer ?. I have £ 700 saved for a tunic / jacket and have been told it is not enough, I could stretch to £ 1000 if I sold something else but do I really want too. Is collecting in the blood or waste of money and should we just look at the WW1 items in the museum's."

It's definitely in the blood John! Museums are great but there is a lot of pleasure to be had in knowing that you can sit and look at museum quality stuff in the comfort of your own home.

Value is all relative. Whenever my Mum used to moan about me buying another old piece of tat I couldn't possibly live without I'd always say, "But Mum, I just paid £5 for it and it's worth at least ten times that" to which she would reply, "Actually it's worth nothing because you will never sell it!" which is, of course, very true!

If I see something I have been looking for for ages I will probably find the money from somewhere purely because that feeling of "I wish I'd bought that when I had the chance" always overwhelms common sense. As I said, it's all relative. For years Khaki Chum Mo Stokes wanted a Lewis Gun. When they were £500 he said they were too expensive. He said the same when they reached £800. And again when they hit £1,200 and £1,500. Eventually when the batch from Nepal arrived he bought one for £1,995 and was delighted with it. The same guns are now fetching almost £4,000 but he could have had the same thing years ago for £500. Everything finds its mark. If everything was still cheap even more people would be looking for it and we would still all be moaning!

In the end I guess we all set ourselves a mental level for each item and only cross it in desperation. The big pain is eBay as a new generation of collectors who haven't spent years trawling junk shops and militaria fairs now bid from the comfort of their armchairs with no idea at all of the value that long-standing collectors and dealers would place on items. That said, a few years ago an Essex and Suffolk Cyclist Battalion was sold by Bosleys for a phenomenal sum. All the badge collectors were complaining that it had raised the bar to a new high. However, when a couple of other people sold theirs in the months afterwards they fetched less than half that amount and the market settled back down to a sensible level again...

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One thing to add, is (relative) rarity of good pieces: when I started collecting 30 years ago, all I had to go on was the Mollo book with colored images of soldiers..now, good doc, in print and on the net, lets not forget the forums, are widely available. Havin seen many collections, most I wouldn't even have for free greater part of them. When I visit a good sized militaria fair and see 30 Pickelhaubes, 29 are put together, sometimes with repro-parts. Same goes for bleu horizon stuff, french helmets, not to speak of Stahlhelms: you see more camo ones now than 'plane' ones. 30 years ago, most collectors had never heard of ex-Afghan, Finnish etc Stahlhelms. My point: we become aware that few really good, honest pieces are still around, and most collectors are prepared to pay good, sometimes over the top, prices. A friend paid 1000 euros for a top Feldrock 10 years ago, we laughed and said he was crazy. And now...try to get one...

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Its peaks and troughs of outlay. Sometimes you have to bite the bullet if you personally really want an item. I recently did it with an officers Gor Blimey hat-payed way too much but it was a must have. Conversely this W/E I went to a little antiques fair in Peterlee and walked away with a 1917 dated Holdall (£4) a 1903 pattern bayonet(£20) a1915 Star (£15) and an ORILUX Torch (£10) it was like a time warp going back 20 + or more years. I think these things balance out across the field.

Mark

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Yep, it's all relative when it comes to prices. Many, many moons ago a friend who was a very serious collector (and a serving soldier) sent me to a London firm to collect a lot they had acted as agent for him in an auction. I meet the medal department manager, friendly chat ensues, he asks my interests (shrewd businessman) and tells me that he has one of the six 1910 Khedive's Sudan Medals and as I'm a friend of, etc he could let me have it below their current book price. It was a month's rent... and I sweated... and passed. Oh, if only we knew then and so on.

The word 'rare' has been utterly discredited due to online sites, but dealers had started the rot years ago.

I have a funny dream which could almost be an episode of "The Twilight Zone"; some shady character appears and sees your interest in medals, uniforms, whatever... offers to put you in a time machine with today's purchasing power to when (say) VCs were £150. But when you get there... all your money has stayed that of your reality and no-one will take it. "Princess Elizabeth on the banknotes? Ridiculous! Fake funny money!" and you go mad, or get arrested (in typical TZ fashion) and your friend with the machine is nowhere to be found. Cue Rod Serling pondering on the pull of human greed..forever in... The Twilight Zone...

(My copyright ;) )

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The word 'rare' has been utterly discredited due to online sites, but dealers had started the rot years ago.

Agreed, it is more than a little tiresome to see Queen Mary tins, Becks periscopes, compasses etc. etc. described as RARE! RARE! Do they really think potential bidders don't know whether it's rare or not, or are they convinced that naive and trusting bankers are desperately searching ebay for stuff to invest their bonus in? For annoyance value it's on a par with "you are bidding on X" (no I'm not, I am looking at X, I'll decide whether to bid, not you), or "Have fun bidding" (fun?? there's no "fun" involved in bidding!!!).

Ah yes, the time machine. We've all thought about that.

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I see the christmas tin & flash is now £300, it's getting interesting.

Has anyone sold a tunic / jacket or any other item's they regret, mine was parting company with a Notts and Derby SD tunic to the 2nd / 5th complete with the green triangle flash.

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When I sold off my Imperial German kit in the 90s, I asked what was then a very high figure for it. A fellow forum member bought it and whinced at the price. If he still has it, I'm sure he'll agree it now seems quite reasonable.

Early 1910 tunic, pre war dated field grey trousers, brown equipment, helmet with cover, brown jackboots, dated shirt, halstuch not the more common halsbinde (rare piece that), pre war grey greatcoat, mittens, early facemask respirator (the one in the small bag that buttons to the tunic) early zeltbahn, breadbag, waterbottle etc. Some small kit, wirecutters etc. Not only that most of it had the correct BA markings for the Regiment, it was painstakingly put together. Think there was a canvas case for the gummimask and spare filters too. Not sure on that, I know I had one.

Lot of money yes, but then it was a good rig. Almost seems like a bargain now.....

I had a fair degree of disposable income when I was an advertising illustrator in the then booming, pre digital industry. Looking back some of the prices seem low, but I suppose relatively speaking, I spent quite a lot even then. I have to say that that 'investment' has paid me back handsomely over the years. What price could/would you put on the joy of having owned some marvellous historical pieces which then relocated to good custodianship, and made a good profit?

I spent a lot, but had a thoroughly good time.

I also committed a lot of my spare time to chasing this stuff. It wasn't exactly plentiful even in the 70s and 80s. I can remember making many journeys by train from South Wales, where I was then based, in the late 70s, and very early 80s to visit Alan Beadle and Chris Farlowe's shops. Chris Farlowe in particular, thought I was very odd for collecting WW1 British items, but I won't repeat what he said! I've lost count of the number of times collectors and others have said 'where did you manage to get that' 'where can I buy a pair of WW1 trousers, boots, PH helmet' etc etc. My answer was nearly always 'f~~~in' hard work, and shoe leather, mate' I'm sure the same will apply even now.

Collecting fashions change, and whilst it is good that there is a greater and more informed group of collectors these days, that will inevitably result in mass chasing of the remaining quality pieces. Shame that there seems to be a lot less human interaction involved now.

Tocemma

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Has anyone sold other item's they regret

Unmodified 1908 Pouches. Among the very first things I bought - almost by accident - when new to it and had no idea they'd be more-or-less irreplaceable...(other than at great cost).

Cheers,

GT.

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