1914-15 Star has number back to front?

[Tartan_Terrier]

One common error is to use the BWM ribbon on the Victory, probably because it was easier to threas through the ring, while the Victory ribbon was only slightly too large for the BWM.

Odd you should say that, I have my Great Grandfather's BWM and it has the Victory ribbon and I'd often wondered about it.

[lukerwhite]

Luke

While researching the Herefordshire Regiment I have come across a mention of your relatives in the Hereford Times 12th June 1915. Pte Nagington 8123 and Pte Nagington 10071 were both listed as missing under a heading of 2nd Shropshires.

Myrtle

Wow, that sounds like a great find. I have not seen that before, Could I please have a copy of that? My email address is

I have the following for him already:

Cant wait to see what you have found!

[Radlad]

I beleive it is the Mons Clasp (sometime the star is nicknamed the Mons Star). I twas awarded to those who were under fire in those first few months of the war and fought so bravely whilst all the clogs clicked into place back home.

I have read that five out of every 8 stars awarded had the mons clap but i am not sure how true that is.

I'm sure someone will put me right if i have mislead you. You sometimes miight see a herald rose badge on the star ribbon if the badge is not worn. You were only aloud to were this if you had the mons clap.

I apologise in advance for the frivolity, but would the 'Mons clap' be eligable for an SWB or possibly a SIW Courts Martial?

[Myrtle]

Luke

The email with attachments has been sent. You should delete your email address from the forum to avoid spam.

[lukerwhite]

Luke

The email with attachments has been sent. You should delete your email address from the forum to avoid spam.

Thanks Margaret Im over the moon with this!

Seems strange that he died on the 25 May according to CWGC but this only shows him missing on the 12 June 1915. Is that definately the correct date of the newspaper article? I wonder if the date on CWGC is incorrect and that is why he isn't showing on the wasr diaries people have been looking at for me!

Thanks for the tip about deleting my email to avoid spam! Im thinking the other nagington must be his nephew Henry Nagington (see above post). Will look him up! I thought he survived because he wasn't on the CWGC site. Will double check now.

[lukerwhite]

Thanks Margaret Im over the moon with this!

Seems strange that he died on the 25 May according to CWGC but this only shows him missing on the 12 June 1915. Is that definately the correct date of the newspaper article? I wonder if the date on CWGC is incorrect and that is why he isn't showing on the wasr diaries people have been looking at for me!

Thanks for the tip about deleting my email to avoid spam! Im thinking the other nagington must be his nephew Henry Nagington (see above post). Will look him up! I thought he survived because he wasn't on the CWGC site. Will double check now.

A bit strange this one. The other Nagington missining on the same list (from Margaret) is for a private nagington reg number 10385. The only henry nagington i can find is for a George henry nagington on a MIC which are different numbers to this! They are 10071 for the 1st KSLI, and then 153838 after a transfer to the machine gun corps. I this MIC card may still be his nephew though and that he has just swapped his name around ie Henry george to George Henry like his father (Franks brother) used to. Although could be wrong. No other Henry Nagingtons I can be find on ancestry military records.

Had a look on CWGC again and no other Henrys or georges are listed as a casualties so he must have been found and Frank wasn't??

Can anyone shed any light on this pvt nagington 10385 and can anyone re look in the KSLI war diaries for frank nagington 8123 going MIA on the 12 Jun 1915?

[Patrick ODwyer]

Samuel Nagington in the 20th Hussars (before the Great War) - any relation?

[Myrtle]

A bit strange this one. The other Nagington missining on the same list (from Margaret) is for a private nagington reg number 10385. The only henry nagington i can find is for a George henry nagington on a MIC which are different numbers to this! They are 10071 for the 1st KSLI, and then 153838 after a transfer to the machine gun corps. I this MIC card may still be his nephew though and that he has just swapped his name around ie Henry george to George Henry like his father (Franks brother) used to. Although could be wrong. No other Henry Nagingtons I can be find on ancestry military records.

Had a look on CWGC again and no other Henrys or georges are listed as a casualties so he must have been found and Frank wasn't??

Can anyone shed any light on this pvt nagington 10385 and can anyone re look in the KSLI war diaries for frank nagington 8123 going MIA on the 12 Jun 1915?

Luke

I believe that you will find that the soldiers' numbers on the Missing List are placed before the names therefore the other Pte Nagington has the service number 10071.

[lukerwhite]

Luke

I believe that you will find that the soldiers' numbers on the Missing List are placed before the names therefore the other Pte Nagington has the service number 10071.

Maragert, Im an abslolute wally! Thanks for pointing that out!

There is no mention of george henry nagington on the cwgc so i must assume he was later found?

What do you think about the dates for Frank? He is only listed as missing (12 Jun 1915) nearly three weeks after he died (25 May 1915) accordind to cwgc?

[lukerwhite]

Samuel Nagington in the 20th Hussars (before the Great War) - any relation?

Patrick,

I have had a look at the other Nagingtons in my tree but cannot see where Samuel fits in. I must asume he is from a different branch of Nagingtons? Do you know any more info on him i.e parents names, residence? I might be missing something......it has been known once or twice! LOL!

[Patrick ODwyer]

I regret I don't know much more. He served in India and in the Boer War and had the Queen's SA medal

[Myrtle]

Luke

If Frank Nagington was with the 2nd KSLI it is likely that he would have been killed at the Battle of Bellewaarde Ridge (2nd Ypres). As there were so many casualties between 22nd April and 31st May, it is not surprising that the details of those who had been killed and those who were missing took a few weeks to reach the newspapers especially, when bodies were not recovered.

Have you contacted Annette (6th Shropshires) in the Units and formations section on this forum?

[lukerwhite]

Luke

If Frank Nagington was with the 2nd KSLI it is likely that he would have been killed at the Battle of Bellewaarde Ridge (2nd Ypres). As there were so many casualties between 22nd April and 31st May, it is not surprising that the details of those who had been killed and those who were missing took a few weeks to reach the newspapers especially, when bodies were not recovered.

Have you contacted Annette (6th Shropshires) in the Units and formations section on this forum?

Yes I have spoken with her before and she very kindly sent me a hand drawn map detailing all the trenches of the Armentieres region where he died. She gave me a rough description of where his unit was around his death date (near to Lille Post) but couldn't really find any definate mention of him in the war diaries.

She said there could be a mistake with his death date which is not uncommon. This is why im wondering if he may have died slightly later than the 25th May 1915 after seeing that newspaper clipping on the 12th Jun 1915 stating him as only missing. I do appreciate the length of time it may take for the details to reach the papers.

I will contact her again with the newly found details to see if she can help me out again!

Thanks

[Myrtle]

This is why im wondering if he may have died slightly later than the 25th May 1915 after seeing that newspaper clipping on the 12th Jun 1915 stating him as only missing.

Luke

Frank Nagington being remembered on the Ploegsteert Memorial indicates that his body may never have been found. If that was the case, until he was officially declared dead, he would have been listed as "Missing".

[lukerwhite]

This is why im wondering if he may have died slightly later than the 25th May 1915 after seeing that newspaper clipping on the 12th Jun 1915 stating him as only missing.

Luke

Frank Nagington being remembered on the Ploegsteert Memorial indicates that his body may never have been found. If that was the case, until he was officially declared dead, he would have been listed as "Missing".

That is true.

I have just noticed something else! The article from the Hereford Times states he was missing from the 2nd Battalion KSLI but the CWGC states he died whilst with the 1st Battalion! Did he transfer shortly before his death? Is this why Annette couldn't see the match up between war diary and CWGC? She would have been looking at the 1st Battalion - i have contacted her but on her post it states she is very busy at the moment....doh!

[lukerwhite]

That is true.

I have just noticed something else! The article from the Hereford Times states he was missing from the 2nd Battalion KSLI but the CWGC states he died whilst with the 1st Battalion! Did he transfer shortly before his death? Is this why Annette couldn't see the match up between war diary and CWGC? She would have been looking at the 1st Battalion - i have contacted her but on her post it states she is very busy at the moment....doh!

Had a reply from Anmette, who agrees there is some confusion there:

"The interesting thing is that out of the six men listed by C.W.G.C & SD as killed over 25th & 26th May with the 1st Batt., five are among those listed under 2nd Batt. in the cuttings.

They are 5320 Biggs listed as wounded, 6333 Williams listed as killed, 10331 (recorded as 10031) Phillips listed killed, 5046 Thompson listed killed + Frank. The sixth man 7585 Thomas is not listed (as far as I can see) so he must have been the one actualy killed with the 1st Batt. as recorded in it's diary.

It looks very likely that Biggs, Williams, Phillips Thompson & Frank Nagington were all killed with the 2nd Batt. on 25th May 1915. Also looks very likely that Henry George Nagington also moved from the 1st Batt. to the 2nd."

I believe a military timeline for Frank would look something like this now;

Timeline:

c.1906 Attested to the 1^st Battalion KSLI

1906?-1914? India (6 years - Not sure what he was doing there although i have read that the KSLI has a long affiliation with

India)

10 Sep 1914 Date of entry into the Theatre of War

5 Dec 1914 Wounded in the buttock

25 May 1915 Death date (MIA report in Hereford Times on 12 Jun 1915 suggest he may have transferred to 2nd Battalion

shortly before death.

Does anyone know if the 2nd Battalion KSLI in the Armetieres area on the 25 May 1915?

Does anyone know what Frank would ahve been doing in India around 1906?

How does one get hold of transcribed war diaries ? Are they available to buy?

[Myrtle]

Luke

As I mentioned in post 37 the 2nd KSLI were at Bellewaarde Ridge on 25th may 1915.

Good to hear that the pointer to the 2nd KSLI has possibly solved the location of where Frank Nagington died.

[lukerwhite]

Luke

As I mentioned in post 37 the 2nd KSLI were at Bellewaarde Ridge on 25th may 1915.

Good to hear that the pointer to the 2nd KSLI has possibly solved the location of where Frank Nagington died.

Sorry Margaret - information overload! I have been thrown by the fact that he may not have with the 1st Batalion in the Armentieres region at all and missed the detail in your post. I do apologize.

Luke

[PhilB]

Frank Nagington being remembered on the Ploegsteert Memorial indicates that his body may never have been found. If that was the case, until he was officially declared dead, he would have been listed as "Missing".

Is going missing at Bellewaarde consistent with being on the Ploegsteert Memorial?

[Nigel Marshall]

I recently read an account of two men being killed in the same action. They are commemorated on different memorials, so I wouldn't rule out a Bellewaarde death from being on the Ploegsteert Memorial.

Cheers,

Nigel

[Myrtle]

Phil

The location of Ploegsteert is the big question mark about this particular case. As far as I know Ploegsteert Memorial is nearer to Armentieres than

Bellewaarde Ridge. On the other hand if the CWGC has listed Frank Nagington as 1st KSLI they may have put his name on what they thought was the appropriate memorial, especially if his body was not recovered.

[Myrtle]

Sorry Margaret - information overload! I have been thrown by the fact that he may not have with the 1st Batalion in the Armentieres region at all and missed the detail in your post. I do apologize.

Luke

Luke

No problem. I just thought that you may have missed my previous post.

[per ardua per mare per terram]

Given the fact that hundreds of thousands of these medals were named it is not unusual that a small percentage of errors crept in. An error rate of 1% (virtually unhead of when people are involved) for just 100,000 medals would lead to 1,000 errors! Check through the typos on this thread to see how many errors people can make.

As other have said the price you paid was a bargain, now you're searching for the plaque.

[Michael Johnson]

"Blimey! And my mate just borrowed all me 3s. Weeeel, if I turn this one upside down..."

Probably naming 33330 Pte. C.E. Forsdike, Yorkshire Regiment.

[PhilB]

As far as I know Ploegsteert Memorial is nearer to Armentieres than Bellewaarde Ridge.

In theory Ploegsteert Memorial " serves the area from the line Caestre-Dranoutre-Warneton to the north, to Haverskerque-Estaires-Fournes to the south, including the towns of Hazebrouck, Merville, Bailleul and Armentieres, the Forest of Nieppe, and Ploegsteert Wood. "

I appreciate that nothing is hard and fast though!