A Question about the Royal Flying Corps.

[alf mcm]

Christine,

With regard to C. Rapley, there are 2 medal record cards for Cyril Rapley 1027 R.F.C. One is for the award of the Meritorious Service Medal {awarded 09/11/16}, and the other is for the 1914 Star. Does his photograph show a medal ribbon {for the M.S.M.}.He arrived in France on 16/08/14. The second card also shows that he was promoted to Lieutenant. According to the London Gazette he was promoted from Temporary Sergeant Major to Temporary 2nd Lieutenant on 12/12/17. There are no Officers service records {R.A.F.} available online, which is unusual. The 2nd card also shows an address, 'Acomb Hall, Yorks.' which should be helpful.

Regards,

Alf McM.

[christine.eden]

This is C. Rapley. Is that tiny square a medal ribbon?

[alf mcm]

Hello Christine,

I would say it was a medal ribbon, but I can't confirm if it's the M.S.M. or not. Perhaps a more knowledgable forum member can confirm it. There also seems to be a small {metal ?} item in the middle of the ribbon. Again, perhaps someone else can confirm what it is.

Regards,

Alf McM

[christine.eden]

I've just found the following online.

The first one was in a R.A.F. flight magazine, dd 14.3.1935

The second was in The London Gazette, dd 30.7.1940

This has a different number - could it still be the same man?

I found an entry on a Google search page for a Group Captain Cyril Rapley, but the page wasn't cached and I couldn't actually find any info. However, if this is the right man I assume his rank will make it easier to locate information about him. I don't actually know the significance of being in the Gazette but I'm sure it will be easy to find out. This one is looking promising.

[alf mcm]

Hello Christine,

The first item is interesting since it proves that he was born after 1890. If you keep checking the Gazette for later years you may find out when he retired. This will narrow down a date for his death, leading to finding his death certificate, and help you to trace his family.

The numbers in the Gazette may be entry numbers.

His service records will not be online because he continued to serve in the R.A.F.

Army Officers are recorded in the Army List {published each year}, and I am sure R.A.F. Officers are listed in the Air Force List {or something similar}. Although these are technically outwith the remit of this Forum, a member may be able to do a look up for you.

Regards,

Alf McM

[per ardua per mare per terram]

The second was in The London Gazette, dd 30.7.1940

1) This has a different number - could it still be the same man?

2) I found an entry on a Google search page for a Group Captain Cyril Rapley, but the page wasn't cached and I couldn't actually find any info. However, if this is the right man I assume his rank will make it easier to locate information about him. I don't actually know the significance of being in the Gazette but I'm sure it will be easy to find out. This one is looking promising.

1) His number in 1914 was as an other rank, which would be different from an officer's number; see below. It appears that the UKNA has not individually catalogued AIR 79/13 (service numbers 950 - 1050) yet, so my cheers were a bit premature!

2) McInnes & Webb have quite a write up for him (my additions in brackets): Born 10 November 1895; he joined the RFC on 10 January 1914; landed in France with the Aircraft Park 16 August 1914 (1914 Star trio). Mentioned in Dispatches 15th June 1916 for services with Number 1 Aircraft Park (rank serjeant)

Gazette Issue 29623 published on the 13 June 1916. Page 5925

http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/296...upplements/5925

MSM 11November 1916

Gazette Issue 29819 published on the 10 November 1916. Page 10935

http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/298...pplements/10935

Second Lieutenant 21 December 1917 (possibly these are his army officer's records WO 339/133504 RAPLEY C)

Gazette Issue 30473 published on the 11 January 1918. Page 782

http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/30473/supplements/782

Flying Officer (Technical) 21 June 1919

(the Gazette I've found is below)

Gazette Issue 31554 published on the 16 September 1919. Page 11588

http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/31554/pages/11588

Married 1924

Flight Lieutenant (E) 1 January 1927

Squadron Leader 1 July 1936 (they do not give his promotion to Wing Commander)

Group Captain (04186) 1 March 1942

In a 1946 Air Force List (which one isn't mentioned) he was shown as Air Commodore, CBE in that year, CEng., AFEReS

Substansive rank of Group Captain 1 July 1947

Retired 26 January 1950

In Debrett's 1972/3 he was living at Chilterns, World's End, Wendover, Bucks.

Was still living in 1978 according to the Air Force List. (Maybe someone could do a Times search to see if there's an obit).

[alf mcm]

Hello Christine,

Per ardua per mare per terram has given you a great deal of information. You should be able to find decendants of Cyril. The light coloured item on his medal ribbon is probably the oak leaf emblem, which was worn by those who were Mentioned in Dispatches {M.I.D.}.

Regards,

Alf McM

[per ardua per mare per terram]

The light coloured item on his medal ribbon is probably the oak leaf emblem, which was worn by those who were Mentioned in Dispatches {M.I.D.}.

The oak leaf emblem was worn on the Victory Medal and was not issued until after the war.

[alf mcm]

Do you know what the light coloured section on the medal robbon could be?

Regards,

Alf McM

[per ardua per mare per terram]

Not with that resolution of photo and it depends on the date. The centre stripe for the ribbon of the MSM was authorised in 1917. The uniforms or medals sub forums probably will be the people in the know.

[alf mcm]

Cyril Rapley's photo was taken on 20/08/17, but his MSM was awarded on 11/11/16, so his ribbon is probably of the older pattern without a centre stripe. I now think that the light mark on the ribbon is simply a blemish on the photograph.

Regards,

Alf McM

[per ardua per mare per terram]

We have no idea when the photo was taken, just thet it was signed on 20/08/17. One of the files referred to above may mention when he received the ribbon. As he was behind the lines, it is possible that he had to change or modify his original ribbon for the new regulations.

[per ardua per mare per terram]

8. G. Donaldson. , R.F.C., 26.7.17

Could it be C. Donaldson? There was 1026 Cyril Donaldson who also entered France with the Aircraft Park.

[per ardua per mare per terram]

If all the photos where the stripes are visible show three, these men were serjeants, so with two Serjeant Majors and if the rest are serjeants, the collection is of the senior other ranks.

[christine.eden]

Regarding Cyril Rapley's medal ribbon - I re-scanned the photo at a larger resolution but it really didn't make it much clearer. The photo itself is very small in the first place.

There is definitely something on the ribbon, as opposed to being a blemish on the photo, but whatever it is it's very small and slightly off-centre.

Regarding the signature of G. or C. Donaldson......see below. Looking at it again I guess it could even be a Y, but I don't think it's a C unfortunately.

Finally, regarding a comment made about a collection of senior ranks I have studied the remaining "small group" photo's again and decided to include the following :

You can see there is another "Stringer" signature with this picture but it's different to the one posted earlier. The earlier one is J.Stringer, this looks like it could be H.B. Stringer.

I can't make out the middle two names.

Incidentally, can anyone make out the comment under the third person ? " To a ? " I'm intrigued.

Thank-you everyone.

Christine.

[Dolphin]

Incidentally, can anyone make out the comment under the third name ? " To a ? " I'm intrigued.

Christine

I'd say that it's "To a cinder" meaning something like "Yours until I'm burnt to a cinder". This could have been a common expression in the RFC, given the chances of aircrew being burnt when aeroplanes caught fire.

Regards

Gareth

[per ardua per mare per terram]

There is a Medal Index Card (MIC) for 4616 Flight Serjeant David P Alexander RAF and a record for him in AIR 79/60 at Kew.

There is a MIC for 4316 Arthur Creighton RFC and a record for him in AIR 79/56 at Kew.

There are two MICs for 3793 Henry Bancroft Stringer RFC (one as a 2/AM and one as a Sjt) and a record for him in AIR 79/50 at Kew.

[David W]

There is a Medal Index Card (MIC) for 4616 Flight Serjeant David P Alexander RAF and a record for him in AIR 79/60 at Kew.

There is a MIC for 4316 Arthur Creighton RFC and a record for him in AIR 79/56 at Kew.

There are two MICs for 3793 Henry Bancroft Stringer RFC (one as a 2/AM and one as a Sjt) and a record for him in AIR 79/50 at Kew.

Christine

I am a member of the Royal Institute of Navigation and one of its members involved in the History of Air Navigation is one Arthur Creighton, not the one in this case but probably a close relative. This Arthur Creighton is a former RAF Pilot and Dan Air Capt. I am sure the Institute would forward any message!!

David

[per ardua per mare per terram]

Thanks David, that could produce new leads.

[Guest]

Hi christine....I have found some information that may intrest you regarding Cyril Rapley...my grandmother was closely linked to him romantically around the time he was in the R.F.C..kind regards laura

[Guest]

I have just looked at the photo of Cyril and it is without doubt the same person. ..it is unbelievable my stomach did a flip...please try and get in touch. ..regards laura

[Guest Mrs B]

Hi

i have just joined this site as I noticed H B Stringer in the photograph. I am a friend if his daughter Joan who is now 91 yrs old. I showed the photo of him to her today and she confirmed that it is "Uncle Mac" sitting next to him. Henry Bancroft Stringer developed cameras to take aerial photographs during First World War. 

Joan and her sister Gill, lived near to the airfield at Farnborough where she worked in the control tower and often flew with the airmen in trial flights.