marc leroux Posted 19 May , 2004 Share Posted 19 May , 2004 There is no service number for Tully Anderson listed on either the soldiers of the first war, or the Canadian Virtual War Memorial sites. His attestation papers are not on line either. So what I have is that he was 36 years old, served with the 44th Battalion, was wounded near La Coulotte on June 3, and died the next day. He was awarded the Distinguished Conduct Medal. Does anyone have any further information? Was he awarded the DCM for actions on the 2nd/3rd or earlier? Any help would be appreciated. TIA marc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris.wight Posted 19 May , 2004 Share Posted 19 May , 2004 Marc since he was a Lieutenant when he died in June 1917, he must have received the DCM sometime the previous year - the DCM was only awarded to N.C.O.s, and other ranks. I just looked through their war diary, there is a mention of Lt. Andersen returning to duty from the field ambulance on March 15/17, link , so the DCM must have been awarded in 1916. The 44th battalion suffered the loss of a number of officers on the attack on Regina Trench, Oct. 25/16, link . I suspect he may have been awarded a DCM for his part in the attack (pure assumption on my part), and offered a commission afterwards. You could also check the London Gazette to see if his DCM was mentioned there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mordac Posted 19 May , 2004 Share Posted 19 May , 2004 Hi Marc: 81016 Anderson, Tully Wallace (DCM). Originally with the 32nd Battalion, DOW June 4, 1917 as a member of the 44th battalion, age 36. Garth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris.wight Posted 20 May , 2004 Share Posted 20 May , 2004 Marc, I thought I'd give the London Gazette a try myself since I've been trying to learn how to use it properly. Anyway after some trial and error, I came across his citation in the August 18th 1916 edition link . Unfortunately no mention is made of what battalion he was with at the time but he was an acting Lance Serjeant at the time. Garth, would you know what battalions took men from the 32nd? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mordac Posted 20 May , 2004 Share Posted 20 May , 2004 Garth, would you know what battalions took men from the 32nd? Hi Chris: The 32nd Infantry Battalion was redesignated the 32nd Reserve Battalion and was used for other than infantry reinforcements. Later the 32nd Reserve Battalion was absorbed by the 15th Reserve Battalion. The 15th Reserve Battalion provided reinforcements for the 5th, 28th, 46th Battalions and the 1st CMR. Garth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Alexander Posted 20 May , 2004 Share Posted 20 May , 2004 Hello Gentlemen, The citation for Anderson's DCM, from Riddle and Mitchell's The Distinguished Conduct Medal to the Canadian Expeditionary Force: 81016 Anderson T. W. A/L/Sjt Inf 08/19/16 09/16/16 P903 For conspicuous bravery and resource when with a consolidating party during an attack. The officer in charge was wounded and Lce Sergeant Anderson carried on the work under most adverse conditions and very heavy shell fire. Although severely wounded he refused to be evacuated until practically exhausted. (Dates are London Gazette and then Canada Gazette.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris.wight Posted 21 May , 2004 Share Posted 21 May , 2004 Thanks Garth . I had a look through the diaries of the 5th, 28th, and 1 CMR. 46th Bn would't fit in the time frame. No luck spotting any mention of his action nor of his DCM being awarded - I figured to be in the London Gazette it must have occured about three-four months previously. Marc if you do find out what battalion he was in when he won the DCM, I'd be interested in knowing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marc leroux Posted 21 May , 2004 Author Share Posted 21 May , 2004 ALL Thanks very much for the information! Chris, I will let you know the battalion if I can find out. Thanks marc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borden Battery Posted 21 May , 2004 Share Posted 21 May , 2004 Attention Chris Wright ... 21 May 2004 Chris ... would you be able to check on a possible citation of a Private Finlayson from the Borden Motor Machine Battery and an incident from March 1918. I have not been able to find any details regarding the awarding of the Military Medal. From page 139 of "The Canadian Emma Gees" there is the following excerpt: "Shortly, afterwards," says an account of this epic, "the enemy launched a strong attack, breaking through on the left flank and ad-vancing in large numbers from the front. Our infantry had withdrawn but the machine gunners remained in action until practically surround-ed. One of the two remaining guns was put out of action a few minutes after the attack commenced, but the other was fired until the Germans were within 50 yards by Pte. Finlayson. The few machine gunners surviving crawled from the trench and in rushes followed the road in the direction of Hem." Private Alexander Lawrence Finlayson ( 911462 ) started with the 196th Western Universities Battalion. Records indicate he was awarded the Military Medal on 29 August 1918. I am assuming this is for action on 24-25 March 1918. Can you find any mention in the Gazette regarding this? Thanks - Dwight Mercer, Regina, Canada Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mordac Posted 21 May , 2004 Share Posted 21 May , 2004 Hi Dwight: I checked Ted Wigney's 'Mentioned in Despatches of the C.E.F.' and Pte. A. L. Finlayson isn't listed on either the 'A' or 'B' list. Garth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mordac Posted 21 May , 2004 Share Posted 21 May , 2004 Hi All: Here's some grist for the mill. Lieut. Tully Anderson's regimental number (81016) is in the block of numbers belonging to the 32nd Battalion; 81001-83000. They were mobilized in Winnipeg which is the home of the 44th Battalion. I've just checked the 44th Battalion's history 'Six Thousand Canadian Men' and the nominal roll lists Anderson's original unit as the 44th Battalion. This usually means the man was with the battalion when they first entered the field in France in August 1916. So, I'd have to speculate that Tully Anderson joined the 44th Battalion either in Canada or in England prior to August 1916 and he won his DCM as a member of the 44th Battalion. Garth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris.wight Posted 21 May , 2004 Share Posted 21 May , 2004 Here you are Dwight, link . On my third try I put in A. L. Finlayson which gave me the right page - in this case you have to remember to put a dot after the initial plus a space. I've found the Gazette's search engine is not easy to use, and then add in problems with the OCR inserting incorrect letters in the names. There are a couple of helpful threads here, one in particular referenced a site which gave instructions on how tos plus problems with the London Gazette search engine. I found it very helpful. This is it : http://www.forrestdale.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/LGTips.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marc leroux Posted 21 May , 2004 Author Share Posted 21 May , 2004 Hello Garth Do the nominal roles give Tully Andersons rank? I'm curious what rank he had at the start of the war Thanks marc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borden Battery Posted 21 May , 2004 Share Posted 21 May , 2004 Thanks Chris and Garth ... would one expect a citation for a Military Medal? The reason for asking is this ... during this particular battle in March 1918 only 4-5 men from the 56-man Borden Battery were not casualties ... my Grandfather and Finlayson being two of them. Finlayson received the MM, however, in my late Grandfather's effect is the ribbon to the MM and on the medal ribbon bar that he wore the MM ribbon is also displayed. This is a little mystery that I am trying to better understand. My guess is that Finlayson got the medal but gave the ribbon to my Grandfather and told him to wear the ribbon on the ribbon bar. Any comments or suggestions on this thesis? Dwight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mordac Posted 21 May , 2004 Share Posted 21 May , 2004 Thanks Chris and Garth ... would one expect a citation for a Military Medal? Hi Dwight: To be honest with you I'm not sure if a citation comes with a Military Medal. You don't usually see anything in the London Gazette stating why the MM was awarded. Why don't you e-mail David Bluestein or Terry. They're both avid CEF medal collectors and they can probably answer your question. Marc - Sorry about my scattered posts on Tully Anderson. I've been up to my ears trying to finish a research project that had a timeline on it. Thankfully it's now done and I can concentrate on other things. I'll sit down with the 44th's history on Saturday and see if there are any references to Lieutenant Anderson. Garth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris.wight Posted 22 May , 2004 Share Posted 22 May , 2004 Dwight, I think what you suggest is perfectly reasonable, especially since they had shared an incredible experience together. I counted ten M.M.s to the CMGC on that page and they were obviously well-earned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris.wight Posted 22 May , 2004 Share Posted 22 May , 2004 Marc, I was able to tease some more information out of the London Gazette by entering Serj. Anderson's serial number into the search box. He was made a Temporary Lieutenant on Nov. 21, 1916 (Issue 29855, Dec. 18/16 - link . Garth, since the DCM was gazetted Aug. 18/16, and the 44th arrived in France mid August, I believe he received it with another battalion. Still I haven't come across anything in the 5th, 28th, or 1 CMR diaries so it's a bit of a mystery. I saw at the top of the above mentioned London Gazette, a Lieutenant D. McAlpine of the 1 CMR was dismissed from the Service after a court-martial, 13th Nov., 1916 (offense 19). Just reinforces how addictive research can be! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marc leroux Posted 22 May , 2004 Author Share Posted 22 May , 2004 Chris & Garth Many thanks for your help in digging through this with me. As long as my wife doesn't find out I'll order his service records. marc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Alexander Posted 22 May , 2004 Share Posted 22 May , 2004 Hi Dwight, Citations for MM's are spotty. Some are fully documented, and in the soldier's file. Others are found in the supplements to the war diaries, and many have no citation. Best route is to check the war diary first and then the specific soldier's records. In reference to the awarding of the MM, in some cases it was for accumulated good work, in others for specific actions, and in some cases it was to a "unit" and the unit picked the man among them who would get the award. It may just be that the MM you speek of, is one of the last type, where the whole unit was deserving, but they only gave one medal. The Canadian MM roll book by Abbink describes the award "policy" for the MM in the CEF during WWI. As a "new" award (instituted in 1916), it was inconsistently granted. Some awards were more than deserving, while others raised many soldier's eyebrows. One soldier (from the intro in Abbink's book), noted how many HQ and rear echelon troops seemed to get awards in comparison to the front line battalions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borden Battery Posted 22 May , 2004 Share Posted 22 May , 2004 Thanks Chris and Bill ... apprecite the information and second opinion. Dwight Mercer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mordac Posted 25 May , 2004 Share Posted 25 May , 2004 Hi Marc: Sorry, but I couldn't find any additional information on Tully Anderson in the 44th's history. I skimmed through the book from the time the battalion arrived in England to Lieutenant Anderson's death and didn't find any reference to him. Here's how he's listed in the nominal roll: (Regt'l No.) none listed (Name and Rank) Anderson, T. W., Lieut. (Original Unit) 44th Bn. (Disposition and Date) d.o.w. 4-6-17 (Theatre of Service) France Another puzzling thing is Anderson's DCM isn't listed in the 'Honors And Awards' section in the book. Could the reason be, as Chris has suggested, he won the DCM with another battalion or was it just an oversight by the author? Please put us all out of our misery and order Anderson's service records. This is driving me crazy! Garth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Alexander Posted 26 May , 2004 Share Posted 26 May , 2004 Just a couple of thougths. The reccomendations for honours and awards usually took several months to wind their way up the chain of command and then be published in the London Gazette. (The Canadian Gazette was usually a couple of months after the London, and was usually the same citation as the LG.) Given this time frame, the Anderson DCM was probably a March or April award, which could make it a St Eloi Craters battle award? This in turn may suggest that Anderson was in one of the 2nd Division battalions, which if he went from the 32nd may have been the 28th? Just a supposition, but may be worth following. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marc leroux Posted 26 May , 2004 Author Share Posted 26 May , 2004 OK Garth. Papers are on order. I'll post the history as soon as they get in. marc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris.wight Posted 26 May , 2004 Share Posted 26 May , 2004 Marc, phewww!!! Bill, I went back as far as February 1916 but no luck. I did come across other DCM winners though. The 28th Battalion's diary can be hard to "decipher" depending on which officer was doing the writing so I may have missed an important entry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris.wight Posted 26 May , 2004 Share Posted 26 May , 2004 Marc, I thought I'd do a google search just for the heck of it. Well, I got partially lucky, and came across this family tree for Lt. Anderson. I knew I was lucky when I saw the town of Huntingdon, Quebec on the first line. No mention of his battalion but here's the link anyways - http://home.cogeco.ca/~mcosgrave1/paf2/pafg71.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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