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Remembered Today:

Frank Nagington KSLI


lukerwhite

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Hi Myrtle,

I forgot to ask...how did you work out that the draft may have been on this date?

When you read the article posted by Neil on Lt C. Steward, it mentions that he took a draft of men to join the 2nd Bn. "about 4 weeks ago". The paper was issued on 5th June 1915 therefore the draft of men that he took overseas would have been approximately 8th May 1915; however as Annette has subsequently posted (#71) that there were three drafts of men sent over to Flanders to replace battalion losses on the 13th May, 16th May and 21st May, it is more likely that that the draft of men taken over by Lt Steward would have been on the 13th May.

This, however, does not answer your question regarding when Frank Nagington joined the 2nd Battalion.

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Hi Myrtle

You may not be too far off the mark with 8th May, my dates are when the drafts joined the 2nd Battalion not when they landed in F/F. I have 242 men landing in F/F during May 1915 (there may be a few more as there are bound to be some M.I.C.'s that I have missed plus this does not count soldiers returning from wounds/illness etc.). About 80 landing over the 2nd, 3rd & 4th May, then the greater part landing over 18th, 19th & 20th May. Now the lads landing in early May spent some time at I.B.D. going by one of the chaps service papers, he landed on the 4th and joined the 2nd Battalion on the 16th. And the men landing over the 18th, 19th & 20th seem to have gone staight to the 2nd Battalion. For example 6201 Pte. Thomas, Mason, who landed on 19th May and was dead by the 25th May or 6591 Pte. William, Hines who landed on 20th and also killed on 25th.

does not answer your question regarding when Frank Nagington joined the 2nd Battalion
this depends if Frank was sent back to U.K. or if he was treated in France. If he was sent back to UK then there is a chance he was among the drafts that landed in May, then again he could well have landed back in France during April or any month before that. Or if he was treated in France then again he could have been sent to the 2nd Battalion at any time.

Luke this is for you - But seeing that Frank was listed as 1st Battalion I think he and others had been posted to the 1st Battalion from one of the I.B.D. but at the last minute were reposted to the 2nd Battalion because they were short of experanced men, as most of the drafts they had recieved would have been made up of blokes who had never been in action before

Annette

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Hi Annette

Thanks for clarification regarding the dates that the men joined the 2nd Battalion.

Cheers

Myrtle

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Hi Annette

Thanks for clarification regarding the dates that the men joined the 2nd Battalion.

Cheers

Myrtle

Thanks guys,

Really appreciate your help.

Luke

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Hi Neil,

Have you made any finds in your local newspaper searches lately that may interest me in regards to the men killed 25 May 1915 from the 2nd Batt?

Last time we spoke you were reaching the critical months where Frank died!

Have you found any more for him i.e presumed dead, Killed in action?

Luke

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Not been to the library since. Monday is likely.

Neil

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Not been to the library since. Monday is likely.

Neil

No worries, keep up the good work!

Luke

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  • 2 months later...

Hi all,

Have managed to get a copy of Frank Nagington's Victory & Bitish Medal Roll. I haven't got a scanned in copy as yet but it states the following :

No. 23 // Rank: Private // Name: Frank Nagington // Unit previouly served with. Retl No. and Rank in same on entry into theatre of war: 1st Shropshire L.I. 8123 Pte.

1st Shropshire L.I. 8123

2nd Shropshire L.I. 8123

There is no other info other than a Theatre of war which served From: a cross // To: a tick

It doesn't tell me a lot i know but does confirm he was with the 1st Battalion as we thought.

Can anyone tell me why there are three enties for his unit served in? Why two the same and are we to assume he was with the 2nd Batt initally and then went to the 1st Batt on two occasssion??

Any help on this would be very much appreciated.

Thankyou.

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  • 3 months later...

Luke,

Not sure this applies to you Naginton you're after.

Below is an article from July 1915

post-31332-060545500 1290437757.jpg

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Luke,

Not sure this applies to you Naginton you're after.

Below is an article from July 1915

Thanks Neil,

I think this article is for Franks nephew, Henry Nagington. I didn't know about his injuries. Thanks for remembering me when you saw this.....really appreciate it.

Luke

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  • 3 years later...
Guest Millie Coney

My ancestor is Private William H Coney who was killed in action on the 23rd of May (or maybe not as the case maybe the 25th/26th) it was good to be able to read about his battalions last movements and get a better picture. I wonder if its possible to visit these places or are you restricted to visiting the memorials?

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Hi Millie

Welcome to the forum; as far as I know there are no restrictions on visiting the Railway Wood area, I'm sure someone on here will know if there are. I've found that as long as you stay out of people's gardens then you are fine, there is a unique Commonwealth War Graves memorial there which probably gets lots of visitors. I put "Railway Wood" with the quotes into the search facility on the forum and got a wealth of information. One of my favourite threads is a 'Then and Now' one which you can see here. Andy and the rest of the posters are brilliant at showing how the ground was then with the present day view. They use Google Earth or Google Maps to get the aerial view of the sites; I often use them with Google Street view to do a virtual visit to the place I'm interested in. I'm always going in and dragging the little yellow man near to a site; the pictures are really very good and it's mostly sunny which helps.

I would recommend a visit to the area and especially to see William's name on the Menin Gate. As I am sure you know at 8.00 pm every evening the men of the Ieper Fire Service play the last post which is a uniquely poignant event. if you put 'Menin Gate Last Post" into Youtube you will get an idea of just how poignant. Ieper (Ypres) is a lovely town and well worth a visit; there are lots of threads about visiting, how to get there and where to stay if you have a look around.

It sounds like you have plenty of research on William Coney but the link to the Long Long Trail at the top of the page is always worth a view if you haven't already and it might be worth starting a new thread for him in the Soldiers sub-forum if you still have questions.

Pete.

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Hi Millie

I now think William Henry Coney was killed some time between the 5th and 12th May 1915-he is reported missing in my local paper the Ludlow Advertiser 12-06-15 (dated under 22nd May) which mostly records casualties for time period between 5th & 12th May 1915, the Battalion were in action on the Bellewaarde Ridge, opposite Westhoek and between Railway Wood and Bellewaarde Lake.

And later the Ludlow Adv. 13-11-15 (under date 28th Oct) records-Previously reported missing now reported killed or died. Now the 23rd May could be when they found his body (if found ?), I have come across one such case were they record the date of death on the day body was found and not the date killed.

I will get back to you after having a closer look at 2nd Battalion casualties and the list in the paper to see if I can narrow down the date. I will also give you brief details of the Battalions movements during April and May.

By the way it is a great area to walk and see most of the Battalions actions because they are contain in a small area, I have drawn up a circular walk that I intend to do one day in that area, and I will post a map.

Annette

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Here the map and walk marked in Green, you do not have to stick to it but that will take you past all the places where William may have been killed. Take care while walking along Menin Road, it's a busy one.

The red lines, arrows and crosses are all places where the 2nd K.S.L.I. stood or marched and all possible places where William was killed.

The yellow arrow point to places of interest.

Will do brief details later.

post-6616-0-79268300-1392046195_thumb.jp

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Here are the brief notes on the 2nd Battalion from start of war until the night of 12/13th May 1915 :-

The 2nd K.S.L.I. sailed for England from Bombay, in S.S. Neuralia, on 13th October, 1914 and landed at Plymouth in November, and thence it proceeded by train to Winchester.

It left Winchester on 20th December, and embarked on S.S. Maidan, for Le Havre. They disembarked at 2 p.m. on the 21st. Next day the Battalion proceeded to St. Omer, arriving at 7.30 a.m. on the 23rd, thence it marched to billets about Blaringhem.

On the 5th January, moved to billets in Strazeeles, and following day it marched to Meteren. On the 7th, it marched to Dickebusch, and that evening it marched to Kruisstraathoek, experiencing shell fire for the first time on the 8th, when it was shelled from midday until dusk.

The next few months were spent in trenches in the St. Eloi sector.

23rd/24th March the Battalion moved to billets in the Reninghelst.

5th April- It marched to Ypres via Vlamertinghe, and on the 7th took over trenches at Polygon Wood. On the 9th it was relieved and 2 companies proceed to support at Etang de Bellewaarde, while the rest go to billets in Ypres. The next two weeks are spent rotating between the Polygon Wood and Etang de Bellewaarde.

22nd April -Following the German poisonous gas attack on Ypres. Two companies from the 2nd K.S.L.I., who were in support dug-outs in Etang de Bellewaarde, was sent to the 27th Division H.Q. at Potijze.

24th April - The two companies still in Etang de Bellewaarde were sent to the front line at Polygon Wood but return later, and placed under the command of the 28th Division.

25th April- At 9 a.m. the 2nd K.S.L.I. marched to Verlorenhoek and placed in reserve to the 85th Brigade. One platoon had remained about Bellewaarde Wood as escort to guns. 1 p.m. the Germans capture sixty yards of breastwork from the 2nd East Surrey, between the top of the ridge, north of Broodseinde and the railway line. The 2nd K.S.L.I. received orders at 8 p.m. for two companies to retake the lost trench. “X” and “Z” Companies, marched to a sunken road half a mile north-east of Zonnebeke. It was decided that the attack would be carried out by No. 13 Platoon and support by No. 14, at midnight but failed to take the trench.

26th April “X” Company tried at 3.30 a.m. and also failed. To prevent the Germans making any further gains a trench was dug around the captured one. “X” and “Z” Companies took over the adjoining trenches from the East Surreys. At 10 a.m. “W” and “Y” Companies were sent from Verlorenhoek to the Zonnebeke Ridge between Hill 37 and Hill 40 to support the front line near Otto Farm, on the way they were heavily shelled with gas and high-explosives but only started to suffer on reaching the shallow trenches on the ridge. Little could be done to deepen them under the heavy shell fire. A report came in that a detachment in the front line near Otto Farm was surrounded, and at 5 p.m. “W” and “Y” Companies and the 6th D.L.I., advanced under heavy shell fire to aid the front line. On arrive the detachment was found holding it own and in no need of help. W” and “Y” Companies then move to a subsidiary line that ran south-easterly between Hill 37 and the railway line, spending the night in Zevenkote.

27th April, evening-the 2nd K.S.L.I., was ordered to make another attempt to retake the East Surreys lost trench. “W” and “Y” Companies made their way to the East Surreys H.Q., arriving at 11 p.m. They attacked at 2.40 a.m. on the 28th, “W” Company, 140 strong and “Y” Company, 90 strong , rushed forward, the light of the moon making them plainly visible. The Germans withheld their fire until the K.S.L.I. troops were about thirty yards away, before opening heavy rifle and machine gun fire. Several officers and men managed to reach the parapet but were unable to get into the strongly held trench, and eventually fell back and returned to Zevenkote. The remainder of the 28th April was quit on the British front, and later returned to the 80th Brigade, and concentrated in support in Bellewaarde Wood, spending its time digging a new line of trenches on the Bellewaarde Ridge, opposite Westhoek up until the 3rd May (the British had decided to pull its line back in the salient to make the line shorter).

3rd May -The Germans made several attacks against the 85th Brigade, reinforcements were sent to them including the 2nd K.S.L.I., who moved into G.H.Q. line near Potijze. They were not needed, and the fighting had died down by 11.45 a.m. The final stage of the withdrawal began that night, and the troops retired to the new line, which ran from the original line near Hill 60 along Sanctuary Wood, over the Menin Road, along the Frezenberg Ridge to the G.H.Q. line near Mouse Trap Farm, the 2nd K.S.L.I. helped cover the withdrawal of the 28th Division. The withdrawal was complete by the early morning of the 4th May, and 2nd K.S.L.I. moved back to the 80th Brigade’s area and relieved the P.P.C.L.I. at 10 p.m. in the new trenches on the Bellewaarde Ridge, which was exposed to fire, and the trenches were not that deep. The Battalion was heavy shelled and gassed on the 5th (the war diary records 29 men killed & 37 wounded but SD & CWGC record 12 killed).

The 2nd K.S.L.I. relieved evening 6th, and proceeded to G.H.Q. Line near Hell Fire Corner (the war diary records 30 men killed & wounded -SD & CWGC records 1 killed and two D. of W.).

7th May –working parties on G.H.Q. Line (the war diary records 18 men killed & wounded -SD & CWGC records 10 killed and one D. of W.).

8th May. The German shell P.P.C.L.I. at about 5 a.m. which increased at about 5.30 a.m., at this time German troops were seen moving down the hill toward the P.P.C.L.I. line. The Germans advance was checked, the survivors taking cover in buildings near the P.P.C.L.I. line, where they set up two or three machine guns. At 5.30 a.m. the bombardment spread to the left, and smashing the trenches held by the 83rd Brigade on the Frezenberg Ridge. At 7 a.m. it increased in volume, spreading still further to the 84th Brigade’s front, while it resumed on the 80th Brigades front and the rest of the 27th Division. At about 10 a.m. they finally broke the line at Frezenberg pushing back the 3/Monmouthshire and 1st K.O.Y.L.I. Some detachments were still holding the front line on the left of the P.P.C.L.I. Meanwhile by 10.30 a.m. the P.P.C.L.I.’s centre trenches had been blown to pieces, and the few survivor moved into the commutation trenches, the Germans got into this trenches but the P.P.C.L.I. still held their far right and left trenches and the commutation trenches.

At 11 a.m. the 2nd K.S.L.I. was ordered to send one company down the railway to ascertain the 28th Divisions position. The 4th R.B. who were in support had sent its companies to help both the P.P.C.L.I. and 4th K.R.R.C. Parties of the 3rd Monmouthshire and 2nd King’s Own were still fighting in their support line but by a misunderstanding were ordered to retire to G.H.Q. Line.

At 12.10 p.m. the 2nd K.S.L.I. was ordered up to the level crossing near Railway Wood. Meanwhile the P.P.C.L.I. had been shelled out of all of its front line, two companies of the K.S.L.I. were sent to support them at 1.45 p.m. One platoon from the K.S.L.I. carried ammunition up to the P.P.C.L.I. front at 3 p.m. and placed as reinforcements in their far left support trench.

At 3.15 p.m. the 2nd K.S.L.I. and 1st Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders ordered to formed a defensive flank from the left of the P.P.C.L.I. to the level cross near Railway Wood. At 3.45 p.m. the K.S.L.I. reported to 80th Brigade that they were unable to get in touch with any units of the 28th Division at the crossing (Lt.-Colonel Bridgford was wounded at this point).

At 4 p.m. a counter-attack was launched on the 83rd Brigades front either side of the railway, it was unsupported by artillery, and progress was slow, by 8 p.m. it was only level with the 80th Brigade at the crossing, they continued south of the railway but could not get beyond the Verlorenhoek ridge. There was now a small gap between the 28th Division and the 80th Brigade, so the 1st Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders were ordered to fill the gap at 11.10 p.m. and the K.S.L.I. were also ordered to send a officers patrol to get in touch with the 28th Division, and also help fill the gap if needed. During the night the 2nd K.S.L.I. took up a line from Bellewaarde Farm to the railway, later the 3rd Royal Fusiliers took over the far left of the Shropshires line. Also during the night the 3rd K.R.R.C., who had earlier relieved the P.P.C.L.I., were ordered to withdraw from the trenches on the ridge and take up a line from the north-west corner of the lake to the right flank of the K.S.L.I., this was done by 3.45 a.m. The 1st Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders were ordered to G.H.Q. Line south of the Menin Road. (the war diary records 10 men killed & 25wounded -SD & CWGC records 9 killed and one D. of W.).

9th May, the Germans bombarded the Divisions line between the railway and Zwarteleen from 5.30 a.m. to 2 p.m., when it stopped for half an hour, before resuming. The German bombardment rose in intensity at 4 p.m. for twenty minutes, shells of every find rained down. Suddenly it stopped, the men know an attack would follow, rifles were quickly cleaned, almost at once a line of German infantry appeared over the crest of the hill, followed by two more lines shoulder to shoulder. This was a welcomed site to the men, who had been shelled very heavily for the last two days, at last this was something they could deal with. Rapid accurate fire was brought to bear on the advancing Germans, those that were not killed or wounded lay down or turn and ran back. The Regimental History records that men were seen wearing British uniforms, and came on shouting to our men. The 2nd K.S.L.I. took no notice and continued to fire, but the 3rd Royal Fusiliers on the left did stop firing for some twenty seconds but then resumed firing. The Germans rallied on the other side of the ridge, and attacked for a second time, only to be met with the same heavy fire, again they turned and retired in disorder. No more attacks followed that day. (the war diary records 60 men killed & wounded -SD & CWGC records 6 killed and one D. of W.).

10th May, the Germans continued their bombardment but no attack was made on the K.S.L.I. on this day. (the war diary records 20 men killed & wounded -SD & CWGC records 3 killed and three D. of W.).

11th May There was more shelling of the Divisions line. (the war diary records 40 men killed & wounded -SD & CWGC records 4 killed and one D. of W.).

12th May Battalion H.Q. in Railway Wood was heavily shelled on, and was evacuated. During the night of 12th/13th May, the Battalion was relived by the 6th Cavalry Brigade. (the war diary records 12 men killed & wounded -SD & CWGC records 5 killed and one D. of W.).

Annette

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Annette, I was going to say to Millie in my post that the depth of knowledge on this forum is just staggering but I worried that it might sound a bit cheesy. But your tour and the detail in the posts are magnificent; I'm going to try to give it a go myself when I'm next there as I have an interest in the Liverpool Scottish. And as far as I can see your tour doesn't involve going through anyone's garden so it ticks all of the boxes.

Pete.

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Annette, I was going to say to Millie in my post that the depth of knowledge on this forum is just staggering but I worried that it might sound a bit cheesy. But your tour and the detail in the posts are magnificent; I'm going to try to give it a go myself when I'm next there as I have an interest in the Liverpool Scottish. And as far as I can see your tour doesn't involve going through anyone's garden so it ticks all of the boxes.

Pete.

Cheers Peter

there is so much history or I should say suffering in that small area just from the point of view from the K.S.L.I. several hundred men from the Regiment were killed either within that area or just outside, then when you add all the other Regiments/Corps that went through the ringer there, makes the blood run cold.

Annette

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Cheers Peter

there is so much history or I should say suffering in that small area just from the point of view from the K.S.L.I. several hundred men from the Regiment were killed either within that area or just outside, then when you add all the other Regiments/Corps that went through the ringer there, makes the blood run cold.

Annette

I have one of mine, a footballer called James Brannick who died on 10th August 1917 just to the north of your walk; it's another reason for me to go back. I think that Fred Roberts and Jack Pearson of Wipers Times fame knew that area well too.

Pete.

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I think that Fred Roberts and Jack Pearson of Wipers Times fame knew that area well too.

Pete.

Yes I think they found their replacement printer somewhere near Hellfire corner if I remember correctly.

Annette

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  • 1 year later...

Try looking up this soldier on Shropshire Archives web site ...insert Wellington Remembers in the search. Biographies of the 184 on the Wellington All Saints Lychgate.

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