ianjonesncl Posted 13 March , 2010 Share Posted 13 March , 2010 What was the medal entitlement for soldiers who only served within the UK? According to The British campaign medals of 1914-1918 the qualification for the British War Medal states "essentially the requirement was that a member of the fighting forces had to leave his native shore in any part of the British Empire while on service" If a soldier did not leave his native shore ie UK then he would not have received the BWM? If the UK was not a "Theater of War" , then the Victory Medal would not have been awarded ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 13 March , 2010 Share Posted 13 March , 2010 I've often thought the rule hard on men manning coastal artillery who might find themselves exchanging fire with German battlecruisers. Were British coastal waters a theatre of war?. Some of those men in small ships fighting U boats not to mention storms etc might well think themselves more in a theatre of war than some base wallah at Etaples Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Baker Posted 13 March , 2010 Share Posted 13 March , 2010 If he served in the UK only, he was not eligible for any campaign medal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianjonesncl Posted 13 March , 2010 Author Share Posted 13 March , 2010 I've often thought the rule hard on men manning coastal artillery who might find themselves exchanging fire with German battlecruisers. Were British coastal waters a theatre of war?. Some of those men in small ships fighting U boats not to mention storms etc might well think themselves more in a theatre of war than some base wallah at Etaples Centurion The Coastal Artillery is a good point. The first British casualties on British soil were I believe from the Durham Royal Garrison Artillery manning the Heugh Battery in Hartlepool and members of a guard force from the Durham Light Infantry. These Soldiers from the information in Chris Baker's post would have not been entitled to any medals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rksimpson Posted 14 March , 2010 Share Posted 14 March , 2010 Hi all and I think that is sad - they should have all been acknowledged for their effort regards Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Lees Posted 14 March , 2010 Share Posted 14 March , 2010 If we are talking about the British Army, then no medals for serving at home throughout, but I believe that soldiers from the Commonwealth who arrived in the UK but didn't reach a theatre of war were entitled to medals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
27thBN Posted 14 March , 2010 Share Posted 14 March , 2010 If we are talking about the British Army, then no medals for serving at home throughout, but I believe that soldiers from the Commonwealth who arrived in the UK but didn't reach a theatre of war were entitled to medals. Yes i have an Aussie soldier who went to UK in 1916 .got sick before going to france and then injured in an accident ,recovered sentt home and got a WW1 pair not bad effort MC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alf mcm Posted 14 March , 2010 Share Posted 14 March , 2010 'The Coastal Artillery is a good point. The first British casualties on British soil were i believe from the Durham Royal Garrison Artillery manning the Heugh Battery in Hartlepool and members of a guard force from the Durham Light Infantry. These Soldiers from the information in Chris Baker's post would have not been entitled to any medals.' Would anyone know the names of these men, so that their medal record cards could be checked to confirm they did not get medals? Perhaps they were entitled to them for being injured through enemy action. Regards, Alf McM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Strawbridge Posted 14 March , 2010 Share Posted 14 March , 2010 If we are talking about the British Army, then no medals for serving at home throughout, but I believe that soldiers from the Commonwealth who arrived in the UK but didn't reach a theatre of war were entitled to medals. Certainly the case with Canadians who were awarded the BWM if arrived on British soil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianjonesncl Posted 14 March , 2010 Author Share Posted 14 March , 2010 List of those killed in the Hartlepools Servicemen Corporal Liddle 18th Batt. Durham L.I. Private T. Jones 18th Batt. Durham L.I. Private L. Turner 18th Batt. Durham L.I. Private W. Rogers 18th Batt. Durham L.I. Private T. Minks 18th Batt. Durham L.I. Gunner Houston Durham R.G.A. Gunner Spence Durham R.G.A. Sapper Little Durham Royal Engineers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alf mcm Posted 14 March , 2010 Share Posted 14 March , 2010 Centurion The Coastal Artillery is a good point. The first British casualties on British soil were i believe from the Durham Royal Garrison Artillery manning the Heugh Battery in Hartlepool and members of a guard force from the Durham Light Infantry. These Soldiers from the information in Chris Baker's post would have not been entitled to any medals. Thanks for the names Ian, The mrc for T. Minks 18/328 D.L.I. shows that he died of wounds on 17/12/14, perhaps as a result of the enemy attack. He was awarded the British Victory Medal. Perhaps there are others who got medals. Regards, Alf McM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alf mcm Posted 14 March , 2010 Share Posted 14 March , 2010 Also Walter Rogers 18/369 D.L.I. k.i.a. 16/12/14. Awarded Victory Medal. Regards, Alf McM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verrico2009 Posted 14 March , 2010 Share Posted 14 March , 2010 Name: William Stephen Houston Birth Place: Middlesbrough Residence: West Hartlepool Death Date: 16 Dec 1914 Rank: Gunner Regiment: Royal Garrison Artillery Battalion: Durham. [RGA - (TF)] Number: 5693 Type of Casualty: Killed in action Theatre of War: Home Awarded the BWM. The note says: "[A.C.] Durham RGM [fwds] roll of men on duty 15 12/14. Eligible BWM" Name: Alex Olliffe Liddle Birth Place: Darlington Residence: Darlington Death Date: 16 Dec 1914 Rank: Private Regiment: Durham Light Infantry Battalion: 18th Battalion. Number: 18/107 Type of Casualty: Killed in action Theatre of War: Home BWM. Note: "killed at West Hartlepool 16-12-14 H.O." Name: Theophilis Jones Birth Place: Darlington Residence: West Hartlepool Death Date: 16 Dec 1914 Rank: Private Regiment: Durham Light Infantry Battalion: 18th Battalion. Number: 18/295 Type of Casualty: Killed in action Theatre of War: Home BWM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Baker Posted 14 March , 2010 Share Posted 14 March , 2010 Very interesting. Seems that a regulation might have allowed men killed on active service at home to be given the BWM. But why that and not the VM, which would seem to me to be more appropriate? Our forebears were every bit as peculiar as us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verrico2009 Posted 14 March , 2010 Share Posted 14 March , 2010 Yes, someone must have decided that since they'd given their lives for their country they should be recognised. Wonder why the BWM? Thought I'd carry on identifying these chaps for possible future reference:- Name: Leslie Dobson Turner Birth Place: Heaton, Newcastle Residence: Newcastle-On-Tyne Death Date: 16 Dec 1914 Enlistment Location: Rowlands Gill, CO. Durham Rank: Private Regiment: Durham Light Infantry Battalion: 18th Battalion. Number: 18/398 Type of Casualty: Killed in action Theatre of War: Home BWM - "KinA at West Hartlepool 16/12/14". Name: Robert Spence Birth Place: Hartlepool Residence: W. Hartlepool Death Date: 16 Dec 1914 Regiment: Royal Garrison Artillery Battalion: Durham. [RGA - (TF)] Number: 15428 Type of Casualty: Killed in action Theatre of War: Home Can't get a fix on him with that number. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianjonesncl Posted 14 March , 2010 Author Share Posted 14 March , 2010 Very interesting. Seems that a regulation might have allowed men killed on active service at home to be given the BWM. But why that and not the VM, which would seem to me to be more appropriate? Our forebears were every bit as peculiar as us. Chris Would the entry "[A.C.] Durham RGM [fwds] roll of men on duty 15 12/14. Eligible BWM" indicate that it was all those engaged in the action, not just those who were killed ? It may be difficult to establish as many of the men from the Hartlepool Battery would go on to serve overseas in other units. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verrico2009 Posted 14 March , 2010 Share Posted 14 March , 2010 And finally, I think "Little" must be this man, though the date of death is earlier than the others:- Name: Samuel Little Birth Place: Jarrow-On-Tyne, CO. Durham Residence: Jarrow-On-Tyne, CO. Durham Death Date: 7 Dec 1914 Rank: SPR. Regiment: Corps of Royal Engineers Number: 558 Type of Casualty: Died of wounds Theatre of War: Home Comments: 1/2Nd Durham Fort. Coy., R.E. BWM again. Note simply: "deceased". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianjonesncl Posted 14 March , 2010 Author Share Posted 14 March , 2010 Theatre of War: Home BWM - "KinA at West Hartlepool 16/12/14". Name: Robert Spence Birth Place: Hartlepool Residence: W. Hartlepool Death Date: 16 Dec 1914 Regiment: Royal Garrison Artillery Battalion: Durham. [RGA - (TF)] Number: 15428 Type of Casualty: Killed in action Theatre of War: Home Can't get a fix on him with that number. From CWGC his number is recorded as 5428 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verrico2009 Posted 14 March , 2010 Share Posted 14 March , 2010 Thought it was something like that: that was from the SDGW section. BWM. Identical note about the roll being forwarded in identical handwriting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Baker Posted 14 March , 2010 Share Posted 14 March , 2010 Would the entry "[A.C.] Durham RGM [fwds] roll of men on duty 15 12/14. Eligible BWM" indicate that it was all those engaged in the action, not just those who were killed ? It would seem to imply that. But one thing I have learned from military records, put simply, is "don't trust anything until you see it with your own eyes". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alf mcm Posted 14 March , 2010 Share Posted 14 March , 2010 My apologies, Thomas Minks and Walter Rogers were in fact awarded the War Medal, not the Victory Medal, as I stated previously. Regards, Alf McM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianjonesncl Posted 14 March , 2010 Author Share Posted 14 March , 2010 Many thanks to everyone for the replies. Alf /Verrico thanks for the work on the Hartlepool casualties. Once again fourum pals have found a new piece of information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFayers Posted 15 March , 2010 Share Posted 15 March , 2010 There's been some interesting posts on this subject on the British Medals Forum. Until reading these I too was under the impression a man had to leave the shores of his native country [uK or Commonwealth] to be entitled to a BWM - but it seems there were exceptions: RN personnel on active service in British ports for a certain length of time (can't remember exactly off-hand); at least some coastal artillery personnel who came under fire during the German naval bombardments (as above, the RGA at Hartlepool being the most commonly mentioned - but I suppose the same would apply to other localities with coastal batteries that were bombarded). The other folk I often wonder about are the home-based RFC / RAF personnel who were involved in combating the Zeppelin and bomber raids over the UK - I haven't as yet come across references to these chaps being awarded BWMs. Has anyone come across these before? cheers Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianjonesncl Posted 15 March , 2010 Author Share Posted 15 March , 2010 And finally, I think "Little" must be this man, though the date of death is earlier than the others:- Name: Samuel Little Birth Place: Jarrow-On-Tyne, CO. Durham Residence: Jarrow-On-Tyne, CO. Durham Death Date: 7 Dec 1914 Rank: SPR. Regiment: Corps of Royal Engineers Number: 558 Type of Casualty: Died of wounds Theatre of War: Home Comments: 1/2Nd Durham Fort. Coy., R.E. BWM again. Note simply: "deceased". He is recorded on CWGC with a date of death 17/12/1914 which would seem correct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clive_hughes Posted 15 March , 2010 Share Posted 15 March , 2010 All those dying in the UK whilst in the Services or as a result of wounds or sickness attributable to war service should also have got the Memorial Plaque & Scroll. Another category I've thought of - maybe answer is easy - the soldiers killed in the Easter Rising in Dublin 1916? Ireland counted as "Home" officially, but did those men get any medal? LST_164 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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