ciudadmarron Posted 12 March , 2010 Share Posted 12 March , 2010 I'm a History teacher and our class has been enjoying some strident debate about who is represented in this cartoon - the figures at the front right and back right specifically. Any help would be appreciated in getting a definative answer - thought this might be a good place to ask! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wardog Posted 12 March , 2010 Share Posted 12 March , 2010 Looks to be Franz Joseph I of Austria front right. Pribably 'John Bull' top left and I guess the gent to his right is French, but I don't know who. Just shows the five great powers. Cheers, Paul. http://www.cambridgestudents.org.uk/subjec...70_w06_qp_2.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ciudadmarron Posted 12 March , 2010 Author Share Posted 12 March , 2010 Looks to be Franz Joseph I of Austria front right. Pribably 'John Bull' top left and I guess the gent to his right is French, but I don't know who. Just shows the five great powers. Cheers, Paul. http://www.cambridgestudents.org.uk/subjec...70_w06_qp_2.pdf Thanks Paul. We had John Bull and the German obviously but the similar hats of the figures on the right had us confused. If front and right is Franz Joseph (which I think matches now that I look at it), then who is front left? If it is the five powers, then it makes it Russia - any ideas who it could be? It seems to be not a generic Russian, like the generic Frenchman at the back... Nicholas Nikolaevich perhaps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockdoc Posted 12 March , 2010 Share Posted 12 March , 2010 The date of 1912 makes this an interesting one since the troubles the five countries are trying to contain erupted into the Balkan Wars around that time. I'd hazard a guess that the front left represents Russia. Keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Mackenzie Posted 12 March , 2010 Share Posted 12 March , 2010 My first thought on back right was Italian but I think it must be France. Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost Posted 13 March , 2010 Share Posted 13 March , 2010 Bottom right I would say King Peter I of Serbia. The hat may be John Bull, but why, England Kept clear of this conflict along with France. Turkey would be a guess for top right. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockdoc Posted 13 March , 2010 Share Posted 13 March , 2010 THIS may help a bit, since the First Balkan War broke out in October 1912. EDIT Also THIS. Keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 13 March , 2010 Share Posted 13 March , 2010 Victor Emmanual of Italy would fit the top right but bottom left looks more like Tsar Aleksandr Aleksandrovich than Nicholas. , None of them match the Sultan of Turkey (see photo) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wardog Posted 13 March , 2010 Share Posted 13 March , 2010 http://www.teachersparadise.com/ency/en/wi...of_austria.html As it looks to me, 'the troubles'- and their leaders- would be in the pot, and 'The Great Powers' of Europe are trying to keep the lid on it! Great Powers- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_power Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeldr Posted 13 March , 2010 Share Posted 13 March , 2010 I would say that Top Right is Ferdinand of Bulgaria His beard changed a few times over the years, but his uniform cap looks right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 13 March , 2010 Share Posted 13 March , 2010 I would say that Top Right is Ferdinand of Bulgaria His beard changed a few times over the years, but his uniform cap looks right I don't think so as the rest of him doesn't. In any case Bulgaria was in the pot coming to the boil not trying to keep the lid on it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truthergw Posted 13 March , 2010 Share Posted 13 March , 2010 I think Wardog is on the money. France, Germany, GB, Russia ( one of the Grand Dukes) and Austria trying to keep the lid on the pot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ciudadmarron Posted 13 March , 2010 Author Share Posted 13 March , 2010 I think Wardog is on the money. France, Germany, GB, Russia ( one of the Grand Dukes) and Austria trying to keep the lid on the pot. This was our summation for the most part too. And that picture - including the cap - from wardog does seem to fit right. Note that John Bull is not necessarily on the cauldron - just keeping a watchful eye over proceedings. He is "keeping the peace" as it were as well, it's not George or a British soldier. The figure at top right is even further removed. France (possibly Italy, although they had some involvement) would seem to make sense there. It would be logical to me for the Balkan states to be in the pot. However, while he is Russian, the figure at bottom left is still unidentified - I thought perhaps Nicholas Nikaelovich but he didn't take control of the Russian Army until the outbreak of war 2 years later so it would seem unlikely - and he doesn't seem young/dapper enough for the tsar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeldr Posted 14 March , 2010 Share Posted 14 March , 2010 The figure at top right is even further removed. France (possibly Italy, although they had some involvement) would seem to make sense there. I'm still plugging for Ferdinand of Bulgaria The cap is certainly not French nor Italian but it does very closely resemble Ferdinand's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auchonvillerssomme Posted 14 March , 2010 Share Posted 14 March , 2010 Plenty on the web about the Treaty of London. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 14 March , 2010 Share Posted 14 March , 2010 The figure at top right is even further removed. France (possibly Italy, although they had some involvement) would seem to make sense there. I'm still plugging for Ferdinand of Bulgaria The cap is certainly not French nor Italian but it does very closely resemble Ferdinand's IAre you sure toure not getting Ferdinand and Franz Ferdinand mixed. The photo you posted earlier looks more like the latter. See below for Tsar Ferdinand of Bulgaria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truthergw Posted 14 March , 2010 Share Posted 14 March , 2010 This is a political cartoon in what would be a well recognised style. The target is the political situation as it involved countries, not particular personalities. There was no need for the cartoonist to try to depict particular people. He would have been well capable of doing so, if he desired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 14 March , 2010 Share Posted 14 March , 2010 This is a political cartoon in what would be a well recognised style. The target is the political situation as it involved countries, not particular personalities. There was no need for the cartoonist to try to depict particular people. He would have been well capable of doing so, if he desired. So see my earlier post of a Punch Cartoon representing Bulgaria and Turkey. In any case The figure of Franz Ferdinand is clearly recognizable in the first cartoon (bottom right) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeldr Posted 14 March , 2010 Share Posted 14 March , 2010 The photo you posted earlier looks more like the latter What earlier photograph? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 14 March , 2010 Share Posted 14 March , 2010 The photo you posted earlier looks more like the latter What earlier photograph? OOhps sorry got mixed up with Wardogs post! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeldr Posted 14 March , 2010 Share Posted 14 March , 2010 (edited) Perhaps this is the photograph of Ferdinand which I did not post earlier, but should have Edited 14 March , 2010 by michaeldr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wardog Posted 14 March , 2010 Share Posted 14 March , 2010 Mix of generic and real persons showing the five Great Powers of Great Britain, France, Russia, Germany and Austria trying to stop the situation boiling over. John Bull and not George V and the Germanic chap does not have the 'tash' of Wilhelm II while we do have a 'spitting image' for Franz Joseph I. I expect it was more obvious to the Punch reader of the time. Nice little puzzle for us now. Cheers, Paul. Image above though throws things out, but then the idea of the cartoon would not make sence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeldr Posted 14 March , 2010 Share Posted 14 March , 2010 It may not make sence today, but perhaps it did when Bulgaria saw her self as 'the Prussia of the Balkans' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeldr Posted 14 March , 2010 Share Posted 14 March , 2010 I get the impression that you are looking at the pot as if it has five men sitting on its lid. I'm not sure that that is the case. Have another look at Ferdinand; is he not he's standing behind the pot. This cartoon is not called 'Five men sitting on the Balkan Pot' It's called 'The Boiling Point' and I think that it is Ferdinand's boiling Balkan pot. He is watching it boil, and watching the four usual suspects, trying to keep the lid on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeldr Posted 14 March , 2010 Share Posted 14 March , 2010 Perhaps with a little help you can see that Ferdinand is standing behind his pot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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