Paul Barrett Posted 16 May , 2004 Share Posted 16 May , 2004 What a fascinating and informative web-site. Keep up the good work. I have recently discovered (via the 1901 Census) a great-uncle that no living member of my family can recall even being mentioned. It turns out that he died in the Great War. Details per CWGC: Private George Henry Barrett. 39022, 21st (Tyneside Scottish) Bn., Northumberland Fusiliers. Died on 20 October 1916 Remembered with honour Ploegsteert Memorial I found his Medal Card on the Documents Online. He was previously in the York and Lancaster Regiment. Beng from Wombwell he would almost certainly have been in the 13th or 14th Bn - a Barnsley Pal. The Card is marked "Pres dead". Having read the Stewart/Sheen book on the Tyneside Scottish I found that new drafts arrived on the 25th and 26th July 1916 the "majority came from Yorkshire Regiments" The book also describes an action on the 20th October. They "had a go.....costing the 21st Battalin 2nd Lieutenant Grice and two men wounded, with two others missing." - it's possible George was one of those missing. The book does not specify where this action took place but mentions the 20th Bn undertaking a dummy raid on Chard's Farm. I have a number of questions(!): Which Pals Bn. would he have been in? His Regimental No. was 25028. Is it possible to find out when George was transferred? Is there anything else I can find out on-line or will my next stop have to be Kew? Is it possible to find a location for the 21st Bn on 20th October? Where is/was Chard's Farm? Why is he remembered at the Ploegsteert Memorial? It's a long way from the Somme battlefields? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Barrett Posted 22 May , 2004 Author Share Posted 22 May , 2004 I have just received a copy of the Pen & Sword book "Barnsley Pals". He is not mentioned in the back of the book. The lists are of soldiers that went overseas in December 1915 - the 13th Bn. list has been compiled from a number of sources, the 14th Bn. list is official. What line of enquiry should I pursue next? (The final question in my previous post has been answered in another strand) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmsk212 Posted 22 May , 2004 Share Posted 22 May , 2004 Paul Just checked him in Soldiers Died but not much additional information :- 39022 Private George Barrett 21st Battalion (Tyneside Scottish) Northumberland Fusiliers Died, France & Flanders, 20/10/16 Born Wombwell, Yorks Enlisted Barnsley, Yorks Formerly 25028 York & Lancs Regt Only have him as George & not George Henry but that is quite common. They also have him as died as opposed to killed in action or died of wounds. This may be because he was missing but generally they then assume kia. If, however, he just died, why has he no known grave? Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 22 May , 2004 Share Posted 22 May , 2004 Formerly 25028 York & Lancs Regt Paul. I think that this service number practically rules him out as being a 13th or 14th Battalion member. It doesn't look to me like he was a "Barnsley Pal" after all. Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Barrett Posted 23 May , 2004 Author Share Posted 23 May , 2004 Dave and Steve Thanks for your replies. I was beginning to suspect that he was not one of the pals (the regimental numbers for these Bns. only appear to reach about 1500). Is this a more likely scenario?: He was conscripted and undertook local training with the York & Lancaster Regiment (a recent Time Flyers documentary on BBC2 focussed on training trenches on the hills around Sheffield). On arrival in France in July he was immediately transferred to the Tyneside Scottish - these Battalions having suffered more than most at the outset of the Battle of the Somme. Any thoughts? Thanks Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilB Posted 24 May , 2004 Share Posted 24 May , 2004 Paul:- What makes you think that Chard`s Farm is on the Somme? I can`t find any reference in the Official History to the Tyneside Scottish on the Somme after 1/7/16. I can`t find any reference to Chard`s Farm either. Phil B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Barrett Posted 24 May , 2004 Author Share Posted 24 May , 2004 You're right, Phil! I made the mistake of assuming that the 34th Division had stayed pretty much together. The 103rd division were involed in the battle of Flers-Courcellette in September. (The Tyneside Scottish were part of the 102nd Brigade.) I've got out my Michelin map and refered to it alongside the Stewart/Sheen "Tyneside Scottish" book. The Battalions were withdrawn from the front on the 7th of July and joined the 37th Brigade until the end of August. At that point they were moved to a 'quieter' section of the front. Places mentioned are La Houssoie, Rue du Bois and Chard's Farm. I've identified these places as being just NW of Lille (and not much more than 8km from Ploegsteert!). Thanks for the prompt, it's got me back in the right direction! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 24 May , 2004 Share Posted 24 May , 2004 He was conscripted Paul. I can't see him being conscripted if he arrived in July 1916. He's almost definately a "K" man. Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annie Posted 24 May , 2004 Share Posted 24 May , 2004 In fact, La Houssoie, Rue du Bois and Chard's Farm are in "La Chapelle d'Armentières". It's not far from Ploegsteert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 25 May , 2004 Share Posted 25 May , 2004 Paul. Chards Farm (centre top on this (1917) trench map extract - nothing had changed much since 1915/16) is approx. three quarters of a mile south-east of La Chapelle d'Armentieres. Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Barrett Posted 25 May , 2004 Author Share Posted 25 May , 2004 Dave and Annie, Thanks for the information and (in particular) the trench map. I'm delighted that I have been able to narrow down where George died to such a relatively small area. I can now plan my visit in more detail. I'm interested in your comment that he was not conscripted. The Government introduced the National Military Service Act on January 27th, 1916. When did conscription actually start? And how long did soldiers train for before embarking for France? If George arrived in July when would he have signed-up? Again, many thanks Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 25 May , 2004 Share Posted 25 May , 2004 If George arrived in July when would he have signed-up? Hard to say for exact as ,for a variety of reasons, training regimes could vary in times, also a soldier could be kept in the UK on reserve for a while. As a guess, I'd say he volunteered in early to mid 1915 (though I've come across 1914 enlistments not making it overseas untill mid 1916 also). I'm almost definate that he would have been in the army already when the National Military Service Act was passed. Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Barrett Posted 29 May , 2004 Author Share Posted 29 May , 2004 Thanks again, Dave. Next stop: Kew!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now