Perth Digger Posted 4 March , 2010 Share Posted 4 March , 2010 According to his MIC, HFS Hobbs L/6525 was in the 11th East Surreys (a reserve battalion) as L/Cpl and Sgt. I know that he was transferred to 12/East Surreys, as he embarked with them for France in May 1916. But his MIC also has him as having a 1914 Star. It also has 'Clasp 2/2610'. The 1st East Surreys went to France in 1914, so he may have been with them (does his number help here?). Any clarification gratefully received. Thanks Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_Underdown Posted 4 March , 2010 Share Posted 4 March , 2010 According to http://armyservicenumbers.blogspot.com/200...battalions.html the L prefix implies he was a regular, and points to an original enlistment date of mid-1900. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verrico2009 Posted 4 March , 2010 Share Posted 4 March , 2010 According to his MIC, HFS Hobbs L/6525 was in the 11th East Surreys ... Mike Hi, Mike - can't see any evidence of him being in the 11th and I think it's a bad 1/East Surreys so I think you're looking in the right place: that's his regiment. In fact, Ancestry logs him under the 1st:- Name: Herbert F S Hobbs Regiment or Corps: 1st East Surrey Regiment Regimental Number: L/6525 But definitely with the 12th Bn when he was presumed dead. Unfortunately not coming up with any service papers for him. This from SDGW:- Name: Herbert Francis Sydney Hobbs Birth Place: Westminster, Middlesex Residence: London Death Date: 15 Sep 1916 Rank: Sergeant Regiment: East Surrey Regiment Battalion: 12th Battalion. Number: 6525 Type of Casualty: Killed in action Theatre of War: France CWGC very bare:- Name: HOBBS Initials: H Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Serjeant Regiment/Service: East Surrey Regiment Unit Text: 12th Bn. Date of Death: 15/09/1916 Service No: 6525 Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: II. D. 19. Cemetery: BULLS ROAD CEMETERY, FLERS Any idea how old he might have been when he died, given his presumed earlier service? Louise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Nixon Posted 4 March , 2010 Share Posted 4 March , 2010 As David suggests, he joined the East Surrey Regiment in June 1900. The closest I get to 6525 is 6528 who enlisted on the 22nd June 1900. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perth Digger Posted 5 March , 2010 Author Share Posted 5 March , 2010 Hi Louise Thank you (and the others) for the information. I've found him in the 1891 census. Born about 1884; 1 of 7 children; father a signwriter and glass writer. Living in Vincent St, Westminster. Hi, Mike - can't see any evidence of him being in the 11th and I think it's a bad 1/East Surreys so I think you're looking in the right place: that's his regiment. In fact, Ancestry logs him under the 1st:- Name: Herbert F S Hobbs Regiment or Corps: 1st East Surrey Regiment Regimental Number: L/6525 But definitely with the 12th Bn when he was presumed dead. Unfortunately not coming up with any service papers for him. This from SDGW:- Name: Herbert Francis Sydney Hobbs Birth Place: Westminster, Middlesex Residence: London Death Date: 15 Sep 1916 Rank: Sergeant Regiment: East Surrey Regiment Battalion: 12th Battalion. Number: 6525 Type of Casualty: Killed in action Theatre of War: France CWGC very bare:- Name: HOBBS Initials: H Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Serjeant Regiment/Service: East Surrey Regiment Unit Text: 12th Bn. Date of Death: 15/09/1916 Service No: 6525 Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: II. D. 19. Cemetery: BULLS ROAD CEMETERY, FLERS Any idea how old he might have been when he died, given his presumed earlier service? Louise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perth Digger Posted 5 March , 2010 Author Share Posted 5 March , 2010 Thanks, Paul (and David). Does the enlistment date and the MIC reference to a Clasp suggest he served in the South African War? As David suggests, he joined the East Surrey Regiment in June 1900. The closest I get to 6525 is 6528 who enlisted on the 22nd June 1900. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perth Digger Posted 5 March , 2010 Author Share Posted 5 March , 2010 Hi Paul May I follow up with a query about the service numbering system, with reference to another East Surrey man? He is L/Sgt Edward James COOK, 10042 according to his MIC. From other sources (CWGC) I have the following: Enlisted 7th Hussars February 1892. Served in South Africa. Re-enlisted November 1914. 10042 is a number that seems to have been given out in the East Surreys in 1910. How might this fit in with the above information? Or is his number from the Hussars? Or is this a G number? MIC doesn't say. As you can see, I'm a bit confused! Mike Thanks, Paul (and David). Does the enlistment date and the MIC reference to a Clasp suggest he served in the South African War? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Nixon Posted 5 March , 2010 Share Posted 5 March , 2010 Hello Mike I haven't seen the MICs of these men but the reference to a clasp on the MIC will be the clasp (and roses if the man survived to wear them) for the 1914 Star. These MICs are for entitlement for 1914-1920 only and so you won't find earlier entitlements recorded there. 10042 is an East Surrey number and dates to the 2nd or 3rd of June 1910. I checked the QSA medal roll for the 7th Hussars and there is a Pte E Cook listed who was entitled to the clasps for Cape Colony, Transvaal and Orange Free State. His number is noted as 3690 which ties in to an enlistment date with the 7th Hussars between 13th Jan and 20th Feb 1892. This may or not may be your man. His army number fits 1892 but the absence of a second initial is enough to provide an element of doubt. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_Underdown Posted 5 March , 2010 Share Posted 5 March , 2010 Can't seem to find the original man in the 1911 census. Where were the regular battalions of the East Surreys then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perth Digger Posted 5 March , 2010 Author Share Posted 5 March , 2010 Hi Paul Many thanks for the clarifications. The only way all the information would fit would be if he served his time in the Hussars and retired; signed up to the East Surreys in 1910, but retired again; and re-enlisted in November 1914. That would make a very short service period from 1910? I can't find him in the 1911 census, but there is another Sgt Edward Cook of the same age in the Transvaal with the 3rd King's Own Hussars. I think this will stay in the too hard basket for now. Thanks again. Mike Hello Mike I haven't seen the MICs of these men but the reference to a clasp on the MIC will be the clasp (and roses if the man survived to wear them) for the 1914 Star. These MICs are for entitlement for 1914-1920 only and so you won't find earlier entitlements recorded there. 10042 is an East Surrey number and dates to the 2nd or 3rd of June 1910. I checked the QSA medal roll for the 7th Hussars and there is a Pte E Cook listed who was entitled to the clasps for Cape Colony, Transvaal and Orange Free State. His number is noted as 3690 which ties in to an enlistment date with the 7th Hussars between 13th Jan and 20th Feb 1892. This may or not may be your man. His army number fits 1892 but the absence of a second initial is enough to provide an element of doubt. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Baker Posted 5 March , 2010 Share Posted 5 March , 2010 Where were the regular battalions of the East Surreys then? 1st Bn - Kinsale (Ireland) 2nd Bn - began year at Mhow, moved during year to Theyetmyo (Burma) 3rd (Reserve) - depot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bootneck Posted 6 March , 2010 Share Posted 6 March , 2010 Apologies for this slight digression. A rough analysis of the online MiCs on the NA website and Ancestry along with the ESR Recruitment Registers has produced the following small sample of men who enlisted during 1910. Regimental No. Name Age Date of Attestation Remarks L/10035 Couldridge, Thomas Joseph 23 years 11 months 6 August 1910 L/10034 Hillsley, Frank 18 years7 months 7 July 1910 Joined 4 Bn, ESR 5 April 1910 L/10036 Dimmock, Alfred Not Found L/10037 Thompson, Thomas F C Not Found L/10039 Arnold, Edmund Arthur Not Found L/10040 Robinson, William J 14 years 5 months 25 May 1910 L/10041 Glock, William 15 years 10 months 3 June 1910 L/10043 Broadley, Charles J Not Found L/10044 Kemble, James A C 19 years 6 months 6 September 1910 Joind 3rd Bn, ESR 28 September 1908 L/10046 Palfrey, Jack Curiel (or Civvel) 17 years 6 months 19 September 1910 A similar exercise to try to find men in the Recruitment Registers with numbers between 10040 and 10048 did not readily identify any of the men. However, it did bring up another William Glock, aged 43 who enlisted on 19 October 1914. He would appear to be the father of the William Glock mentioned above there is another T J Couldridge who enlisted in the East Surreys on 9 August 1915 aged 45. Both of these men appear to have been former soldiers and papers survive. The elder William Glock’s papers show that he was an army pensioner who had previously served with the East Surrey’s and his new number was 1274. He appears to have served at Home with the 4th and 11th battalions. regards Bootneck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
per ardua per mare per terram Posted 6 March , 2010 Share Posted 6 March , 2010 1st Bn - Kinsale (Ireland) 2nd Bn - began year at Mhow, moved during year to Theyetmyo (Burma) 3rd (Reserve) - depot Presumably the 1st would be recorded on the census in Ireland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
per ardua per mare per terram Posted 6 March , 2010 Share Posted 6 March , 2010 The clasp was inscribed "5 Aug. to 22 Nov. 1914" it needed to be claimed and was issued for people who were verified to have been in units within range of enemy mobile artillery within the qualifying dates. The administration for it was supposed to have been automatic for those who died on active service; survivors also received silver roses to sow on to the ribbon when only it was worn. Herbert F S Hobbs's MIC should have the date of entry into theatre recorded on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verrico2009 Posted 6 March , 2010 Share Posted 6 March , 2010 16.8.14. Theatre not completed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bootneck Posted 6 March , 2010 Share Posted 6 March , 2010 Herbert Hobbs went out to France in August 1914 with 1st ESR. The typescript 14 Star Roll at SHC had him recorded as 'Hotts'. He is not recorded as having been wounded in any of the casualty rolls attached to the units war diaries for 1914. Bootneck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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