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Gunner Bailey

Value of Death Plaques?

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Gunner Bailey

I was discussing the 'collecting lifespan' of collectors with another dealer the other day and we estimated 45-50 years. That's a long time for items to disappear, especially if others are hoping to locate named items.

John

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westkent78

We haven't had a good "medal collectors are evil" thread for some time.

In the family they may never be seen again either. What's the difference between Grand Uncle Bill's plaque lying in a drawer buried under clothes and completely forgotten and that plaque being in someone's 'hoard'?

You're forgetting that one day the collection will be broken up and they'll be back on the market again, and either the family will purchase them if their interested and lucky or another collector will start the process again and research the chap and his name/memory will go on.

And don't even mention a museum- they've all got more than they can cope with and they really do never see the light of day unless the recipient was 'special'.

Why not collect 300, 400, 700 if you can research them. To be frank the collectors you speak of don't sound like the many I've come across. We're all more interested in the 'man behind the medal' than just the acquisition.

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Gunner Bailey

Why not collect 300, 400, 700 if you can research them. To be frank the collectors you speak of don't sound like the many I've come across. We're all more interested in the 'man behind the medal' than just the acquisition.

Perhaps you have not met as many as I have. I don't think collectors are evil, nasty etc, but their collecting behaviour results in a version of hoarding, and simply things do drop out of circulation for a long time. A general WW1 collector may have a few plaques but is just as likely to sell them after a few years to fund something else. Someone who mainly collects plaques may possess them for decades before they appear again.

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Sepoy

We haven't had a good "medal collectors are evil" thread for some time.

I'm not evil.............

A cantankerous old ,,, may be :lol:

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303man

And here the action of a hoarder, Purchased, Researched found his photo and took his plaque to France and placed on his grave. His father owned a shipping company in Hartlepool and I am now researching what happened to the company. I am quite happy to provide a talk to forum members on the memorial plaque its inception design production techniques, distribution and variations etc somewhere North Hampshire Berks Border In fact if I can book it The Army Target Shooting Clubhouse at Bisley at a Date TBC. Most of the stuff you currently find on the web originated from my research before the internet. Articles published in the OMRS Journal, Coins and Medal News that proved the Wide H Narrow H and not all Naval Plaques have a narrow H, The Plate Numbers where they appear on and on what manufacturers plaques, The plaque Reference numbers. I could go on so If I come up with a date and time for a talk is anyone up for it.

pvlp.jpg

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Ben3095

"303man" Thats the way things should be done! Thats great!

As a collector myself I have done hours of research on the men behind the medals I own.

Cheers

Ben

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Sepoy

I am quite happy to provide a talk to forum members on the memorial plaque its inception design production techniques, distribution and variations etc somewhere North Hampshire Berks Border In fact if I can book it The Army Target Shooting Clubhouse at Bisley at a Date TBC.

303man

I certainly would be most interested to hear you talk on the subject - just make certain we have plenty of notice, so I can take leave (if needs be - I am a shift worker these days).

And to show that I am also happy to share, here is another Memorial Plaque.

This one commemorates the life and service of 2105 Sepoy Raya Ramji, 110th Mahratta Light Infantry, son of Ramnak Raghnak of Koolwand, Khed, Ratnagiri, Bombay (Mumbai) India. He fell during the Siege of Kut Al Amara on 15th April, 1916 and is now commemorated on the Basra Memorial, Iraq.

May be there should be a specific Memorial Plaque thread, so collectors can share the Plaques in their collections.

Sepoy

post-55476-0-41742800-1383604042_thumb.j

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Old Owl

Collectors are only custodians for a relatively short period of time! They don't last for ever and these items will re-appear, unless in the unlikely case, their Family have absolutely no interest, or care, and chuck them in the Clyde!

Sepoy

Thank you Sepoy.

Indeed all collectors are meer custodians, but hopefully their collections will survive for many generations to come, unless of course it is decreed that collectors will no longer be allowed to collect such items, and then inevitably many will be thrown out with the rubbish, into the Clyde, or melted down and lost forever!!

Robert

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HarryBettsMCDCM

  • ..Most Statements are not realistic Plaques were rarely if ever pawned/sold for pennies to feed starving Children they werent saleable in the era of the depression, A man would have been lucky to get 5/- for a DCM!!let alone a pip squeak and wilfred or a Commemorative Plaque, The reason so many survive today is due to being kept in drawers etc until the advent of the www when with the assistance of Flog It Bargain Hunt Dicklensons Real? Deal et al the viewing public became experts and people began to flog off the family jewels, cos they were worth a bob or six. I have collected Medals Orders and Decorations for over 55 years man and boy and no my collection will not "see the light of day" for the remit of my life, I sacrificed my money my time and effort when other lads were pulling birds, getting drunk and smoking themselves stupid to finance my collection, and spent my life so far researching the service of men who otherwise may well have ended up on the local tip. ALL Medals on the market bar very very few; from Field Marshalls to Privates were originally sold or disposed of by Families, Some people just have no interest in their forebears at all. we the minority are here on this site because we do most dont!!!

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Old Owl

Of course one of the downsides of collecting Memorial Plaques is the sheer weight!! Just imagine the weight of 700--you certainly need to make sure your joists are sound!!

Actually, having made that statement I can't really think of another downside to collecting Memorial Plaques--although I suspect that I could be proved wrong.

Robert

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David Filsell

What's the problem - someone's sold them - you bought them. If you are a collector or simply want one you have obtained a memory and have it safe. If you sell the penny will be bought by someone who wants it, collector or not. Even if you make a profit in the sale the same applies.

As for the name? Who's counting.

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yellow

John,

It is good that you feel so emotional about these plaques. However, I do not agree that so much emotion should be poured into a bronze plaque. A life is represented by the actions of that person, how they lived and loved. It should not be placed into something material, like it is the very essence of their existence. I am actually offended by comments here, such as "one plaque = one life".

These service people do on the most part have their names engraved on memorials etc, so the memorial plaque is not the only unique representation of their memory. Relatives can make pilgrimages to these sites if they wish.

I see that you are a regular visitor to this forum so clearly the Great War is of some importance to you. The simple fact is so many people have moved on. The majority of the general public are not interested, or care about these plaques and I can think of no better home for them than with someone who cares and understands the sacrifice. As with anything in life there are good and a few bad people involved. You should not jump to the conclusion that everyone who collects plaques is intentionally depriving families. The good ones do it for interests sake and the preservation of the sacrifice.

I do not own all my family medals or plaques. This is the case with the majority of collectors I have spoken too over the years. I understand that I should not resent a person who has purchased some property, that at one point my family chose to give away, or dispose of for whatever reason.

Death is something certain to us all. It is very sad that it came too soon for these fine fellows, but I do not think for a second they would want to be remembered in x weight of bronze. Better to remember them all, for the freedom of choice we have in our lives today. The real insult would be, to not live our lives to the full and thus not appreciate their sacrifice. To conclude..........I do not believe a plaque can ever be the finite, pinnacle of remembrance that you purport it to be. It is one of MANY forms of remembrance, but I am not saying that it should be held with little regard, or no respect.

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Gunner Bailey

I think the only comfort I have from this thread is the universal respect shown for the dead.

Can I offer a suggestion?

All plaque collectors in the forum list their plaques in a dedicated thread. That way members searching for relatives plaques might find them and possibly offer a swap. That way plaques would no longer be hidden away for years and at least their actual existence would be known.

John

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Sepoy

All plaque collectors in the forum list their plaques in a dedicated thread. That way members searching for relatives plaques might find them and possibly offer a swap. That way plaques would no longer be hidden away for years and at least their actual existence would be known.

Word of warning - not everyone on this Forum are totally anonymous and by listing entire collections it may make people vulnerable to unwanted visits. Not everyone visiting this site may be honest and trustworthy. Mind even if people can find the time to list their 700 plus Memorial Plaques, and they have their collections stolen, all police would need to do is look for burglars with recent hernias.

Sepoy

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Jerry B

I have only one memorial plaque and I bought it this year. I found out he was commemorated on a family headstone near to his home town which is near to where I live and where I bought it from, so I went to visit and to take a photograph of the headstone. Whilst I was there a elderly couple were tidying the grave and I mentioned why I was there. The woman (and her husband) were the people who had parted with the plaque and his Victory medal and said they had just been stuffed in a drawer for many years. She was the grand daughter of the brother of the deceased and when I mentioned that the plaque and medal would be honoured by me, she looked a bit upset and so I left them in peace.

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303man

Here is an example of how someone has created their own WW2 Plaque. He was a Casualty looks like the work of a youngster.

p24u.jpg


And Another a more neatly done.

pkft.jpg

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303man

This one is a copy of a plaque cast in a very Brassy mixture and has 3 Sprue marks on the reverse, initially I thought he was a Somme Casualty but he is buried in Australia and was probably never entitled to a plaque so someone took the initiative and made one.

p7nf.jpg

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Gunner Bailey

Nice to see these DIY plaques. Something I'd never seen before. John

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stevem49

I am waiting until the metal price is high enough to flog mine!

Actually I only have 2 plaques and a number of medals to 9th Bn Sherwoods. If any family member ever wanted 'em, then they can have them (for a price)

Why is collecting of Medals/plaques demonized, yet it is OK to collect anything else.

Very odd :D

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303man

There is a myth rumor that there are two letter Q fonts used on plaques. But you have to have a lot of Q plaques to prove / disprove the theory,as yet all my Q surnames have a long tail on the Q see pictures has anyone a Q with the mythical short tail?

gzw4.jpg

su90.jpg

tyhg.jpg

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Andrew Upton

There is a myth rumor that there are two letter Q fonts used on plaques. But you have to have a lot of Q plaques to prove / disprove the theory,as yet all my Q surnames have a long tail on the Q see pictures has anyone a Q with the mythical short tail?

From the looks of things, the Q and U appearing next to each other in those three examples are very slightly smaller than the surrounding letters, which would suggest to me they were a joined block, eg "QU" instead of using seperate letters. Perhaps the supposed example of a short tail Q occurs when seperate letters are used instead, or in a name where the Q was not followed by a U?

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grendav2001

And here the action of a hoarder, Purchased, Researched found his photo and took his plaque to France and placed on his grave. His father owned a shipping company in Hartlepool and I am now researching what happened to the company. I am quite happy to provide a talk to forum members on the memorial plaque its inception design production techniques, distribution and variations etc somewhere North Hampshire Berks Border In fact if I can book it The Army Target Shooting Clubhouse at Bisley at a Date TBC. Most of the stuff you currently find on the web originated from my research before the internet. Articles published in the OMRS Journal, Coins and Medal News that proved the Wide H Narrow H and not all Naval Plaques have a narrow H, The Plate Numbers where they appear on and on what manufacturers plaques, The plaque Reference numbers. I could go on so If I come up with a date and time for a talk is anyone up for it.

pvlp.jpg

northern daily mail

west hartlepool

2 august 1917

killed in action

crosby

killed in action, july 24th, corporal j m crosby (jack), of honourable artillery company, son of john w crosby, of west hartlepool and eaglescliffe.

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303man

The thread is about plaque value, what then would you be prepared to pay if there are 2 choices for a plaque, (Only 2 of that name on the CWGC site) One is Irish Regiment KIA 1918 and the soldier enlisted in Ireland and resided in Ireland. The other is First day of the Somme casualty from Lancashire Fusiliers (Salford Pals) and the plaque was for sale in Manchester. To me the law of averages is this is the Salford Pals plaque and it would go for a higher than average price.

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Dawley Jockey

303man,

Although your scenario could happen the price of the plaque in Manchester would only reach a level that someone was willing to pay for it (not being a unique plaque), but we all know what is worth peanuts to one person can be gold to another.

As a side note - Irish plaques generally attract slightly higher prices.

Dave

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auchonvillerssomme

One of the Somme plaques I have is Private Arthur Aust 16th Bn Middlesex Regt KIA 1st July 1916 buried Hawthorn Ridge No1. I bought it many years ago, and have since been offered 600 quid, I said I will never sell it, but come 2016 if the prices go through the roof, I'm not so sure. If someone wants it that much then they aren't going to be a bad custodian.

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