KIA V DOW

[Tony Ring]

I can understand that on the battlefield the term KIA - "Killed in Action" would apply to sudden and violent death.

At what stage does the term DOW - Died of Wounds apply.

Does one have to be treated by a Medic first or die after a certain period of time after the injury to be DOW. e.g. Someone injured out in no mans land and stuck there for several days before dying.

Any thoughts ??

Tony

[NeilEvans]

I think it's accepted that for the term 'Died of Wounds' to apply to a casualty who had recieved medical attention, usually a Casualty Clearing Station, prior to death.

I've also seen records of a man who had been wounded 2 hours before his death. He is classed as KIA. He remained in the line and recieved no treatment from a Station.

Neil

[KevinBattle]

Don't quote me, but Killed in Action would generally be regarded as killed "fairly instantly" by enemy action, i. e. before he could be given much medical aid. Killed on Active service could mean death while performing your normal duties but without action from the enemy, i.e. an accident, weather, shipwreck etc... Died of Wounds would generally be regarded as that the casualty had at least reached some form of "official" medical treatment.

In your example, someone would have to note that a particular soldier had been left calling for help in No Mans Land, in other words verified.

Of course, there were many instances of "artistic licence" for want of a better phrase, which some commanding Officers used to soften the blow and to emphasise that their son died a "noble" death fighting, not coughing his lungs up from gas poisoning etc.

Hope that helps while you wait for the real experts...

[Tony Ring]

I think it's accepted that for the term 'Died of Wounds' to apply to a casualty who had recieved medical attention, usually a Casualty Clearing Station, prior to death.

I've also seen records of a man who had been wounded 2 hours before his death. He is classed as KIA. He remained in the line and recieved no treatment from a Station.

Neil

Neil

Thank you. I had presumed it was death after receiving medical treament however I recently heard of a incident where a soldier in the front line was shot through the chest and took over an hour to die a painful death. No medics available. Although not confirmed his death was apparently classed as "Died Of Wounds".

Tony

[Tony Ring]

Don't quote me, but Killed in Action would generally be regarded as killed "fairly instantly" by enemy action, i. e. before he could be given much medical aid. Killed on Active service could mean death while performing your normal duties but without action from the enemy, i.e. an accident, weather, shipwreck etc... Died of Wounds would generally be regarded as that the casualty had at least reached some form of "official" medical treatment.

In your example, someone would have to note that a particular soldier had been left calling for help in No Mans Land, in other words verified.

Of course, there were many instances of "artistic licence" for want of a better phrase, which some commanding Officers used to soften the blow and to emphasise that their son died a "noble" death fighting, not coughing his lungs up from gas poisoning etc.

Hope that helps while you wait for the real experts...

Kevin

Thanks for your reply.

I guess it depends on the circumstances and the eye witness accounts.

Tony

[Bardess]

This has been discussed before so you might be able to pick up some pointers

[centurion]

One of my great uncles, hit in no mans land, managed to drag himself back to his trench line the next day but died soon afterwards - he is recorded as DOW. On this basis it isn't just died after medical treatment

[cdeayton]

It can appear fairly arbitrary in records. My belief is that it is an old distinction to indicate a death within the course of an action and a death (of wounds received in that action) but occurring 'after' the action had passed on or ceased. By WW1, the dinstinction bewteen phases of battle and non-batttle became increasingly blurred. Clearly most died 'of wounds' as fewer were truly instantaneous and many recorded as KIA received medical attention on the battlefield. Almost all of the records I have seen of those who made it to the RAP alive were recorded as DOW, but I don't think there's enough evidence to cite this as the definite dividing line. Perhaps a modern Army medico could provide the current definition.

Craig

[David B]

Really, what does it matter, you are deceased anyway. My brother in laws uncle (Lt W V Keats, 52 bn) was listed as DOW but according to eye witness accounts he only lasted

20 minutes after being hit by shrapnel. I think to some extent it was what went on in the heat of the moment.

David

[kenf48]

It may not matter to the deceased but I think it matters and can be very helpful if researching a soldier.

Given the number of casualties and the difficulty of eyewitness reports there are always going to be anomalies but I find the three categories as defined in casuallty lists and Soldiers Died in Great War are most useful, if not definitive:-

Killed In Action - Those who perished as a direct result of the war

Died of Wounds - Died as a direct result of the war after being first received alive at a medical unit

Died - Died anywhere from non-military causes such as accident or disease

(ack Geoff Bridger ed SDGW)

Ken

[squirrel]

There is a London Irish Rifles Officer casualty from 15th September 1916 at High Wood described on CWGC as "died".

He was seriously wounded in the intial assault and died a very short while after while attempting to give first aid to other wounded.

[phil andrade]

The archives of the old Soviet Union, in their tabular compilations of their outrageous losses in WW2, make a significant comment on this : they refer to "killed in action or died before evacuation" in one category, and then they give a separate enumeration for "died of wounds in hospital". The implication is clear : soldiers who were killed outright on the spot were counted along with those who were so badly wounded that they died in the front line, even if they had received medical attention - to all intents and purposes, these soldiers were all killed in action. What holds true for one war surely holds true for another. The efficency of casualty evacuation must have impinged on how these categories were compiled. For example, I note that at Verdun the French reported nearly thirty men killed in action for every one hundred wounded, while the Germans reported only seventeen. This, I believe, reflected the fact that the French found it harder to evacuate their wounded, of whom many died in the front line and were counted as killed in action.

Phil

[Tony Ring]

This has been discussed before so you might be able to pick up some pointers

Diane

I missed that thread.

Thanks for bringing it to my attention.

Tony

[centurion]

Died of Wounds - Died as a direct result of the war after being first received alive at a medical unit

Does not fit the case of my G Uncle (see post above) who died after regaining his own lines but before getting to a medical uit, Definitely recorded as DOW

[kenf48]

Given the number of casualties and the difficulty of eyewitness reports there are always going to be anomalies

Ken