4th Cheshires Drafts to Service Battalions

[droberts]

Forum,

I have been creating a spreadsheet for men who served at some point with 4th Cheshires.

I have first downloaded MIC's and then searched for any service records.

I am nowhere near complete but my list is near 3000 men at present.

I have various collumns for data including transfers to service battalions and new number and date entered theatre.

I noticed the following interesting relationship between alphabetical and numerical sequencing of a particular draft the other day which may be of use to some searchers with no record to go on.

I am by no means certain of the correctness of my view, but would welcome your insights.

I have a group of men Numerically and Alphabetically Sequenced from 49430 to 49588.

I have been fortunate in finding many of their service records.

The existing service records suggest that they were all posted to base depot France 7/9/1916 and appear to have been posted in sequenced drafts to 10th, 11th, and 13th Cheshires respectively on 16/7/1916.

I attach the list of men concerned and show which battalion they went to where I have been able to determine this from records.

There are two men out of sequence Harry Kevan 49476 (no record) and Thomas Clarke 49477 (clarke solely came from 7th Cheshires), both were NCO's.

Questions?

Is it reasonable to assume from this list that men with no service record were drafted in sequential blocks to the Service battallions concerned ?

Is it reasonable to assume that this entire draft with the exceptions of Kevan and Clarke came via the 4th Cheshires ?

regards

David

Sorted by Service Bn Number Serv.Bn. T.Force Posted Bn

No. No.

Walter Bailey Cheshire 49430 2128 10th

Harry Barlow Cheshire 49431 4303

John J Batty Cheshire 49432 49432, 142977

Henry J Bawdon Cheshire 49433 4386

James R Bayley Cheshire 49434 4082

James W Beattie Cheshire 49435 4572 10th

Tom J Buffham Cheshire 49436 4312

Ernest Bell Cheshire 49437 4021

Herbert Bentley Cheshire 49438 4438

David Bennett Cheshire 49439 4371

Fred Bennison Cheshire 49440 4352

Herbert Benson Cheshire 49441 4629

Percy Bickerton Cheshire 49442 49442, 664572

Arthur Biggs Cheshire 49443 2511 10th

Joseph Biggs Cheshire 49444 2312

Albert Blything Cheshire 49445 3798

Frank Booth Cheshire 49446 4569

Not Found Cheshire 47

Joseph Leigh Bowler Cheshire 49448 4612

Frederick A Bownas Cheshire 49449 2501 10th

James Bowyer Cheshire 49450 4571

Walter Bramwell Cheshire 49451 4570 10th

Herbert J Brough Cheshire 49452 4417

Robert Brown Cheshire 49453 4259 10th

Frank Bryning Cheshire 49454 4416 10th

Charles Buckley Cheshire 49455 4014 10th

Not Found Cheshire 56

Henry Burslam Cheshire 49457 4400

Joseph Campbell Cheshire 49458 4441 10th

Frederick J Carlisle Cheshire 49459 4617

Alfred J Carr Cheshire 49460 4231

Benjamin O Carruthers Cheshire 49461 49461, 670200

Harry Carter Cheshire 49462 4440

William Cheetham Cheshire 49463 4084 10th

Percy Clark Cheshire 49464 4813

Not Found Cheshire

Joseph Conway Cheshire 49466 3868

Henry Cooper Cheshire 49467 4232 10th

Not Found Cheshire

Thomas E Daniels Cheshire 49469 4690 10th

George W Davies Cheshire 49470 4675 10th

James Davies Cheshire 49471 2097 10th

Not Found Cheshire

John L Dawson Cheshire 49473 4634

Frederick Deighton Cheshire 49474 4146 10th

Joseph Dennis Cheshire 49475 4577 10th

Harry Kevan Cheshire 49476 xxx

Thomas Clarke Cheshire 49477 4074 11th xxxx

Ernest H Davenport Cheshire 49478 4111 11th

Not Found Cheshire

Edgar Dixon Cheshire 49480 4262 11th

John H Dobson Cheshire 49481 4197 11th

Henry Dodd Cheshire 49482 4443

James Dodwell Cheshire 49483 49483389979 11th

Martin Donnelly Cheshire 49484 4316

Albert Downing Cheshire 49485 4402 11th

Charles Dunnette Cheshire 49486 4397

Thomas S Edge Cheshire 49487 4636 11th

Arthur Evans Cheshire 49488 4444 11th

Edward Farmer Cheshire 49489 3455

James Fogg Cheshire 49490 4580

Not Found Cheshire

Charles W Foster Cheshire 49492 4154

Peter Garner Cheshire 49493 4149

Thomas Knowles Gledhill Cheshire 49494 4142 bbb

Thomas Godfrey Cheshire 49495 4446 11th

Harold Gratrix Cheshire 49496 4677

Henry Green Cheshire 49497 4611 11th

Not Found Cheshire

Bernard Griffin Cheshire 49499 3802 11th

George Griffiths Cheshire 49500 4110 11th

Harold Haigh Cheshire 49502 4403

Albert Hale Cheshire 49503 3852 11th

John Hampson Cheshire 49504 4451 11th

Not Found Cheshire

Not Found Cheshire

Frederick G B Henderson Cheshire 49507 4641

John J Hickson Cheshire 49508 4055

Ernest Hill Cheshire 49509 4128 11th

Frank Houlgrave Cheshire 49510 49510, 315057

George A Huddart Cheshire 49512 2729 11th

Percy G Hudson Cheshire 49513 49513, 398781, GS/106730

Evan J Jones Cheshire 49516 4235

Not Found Cheshire

Joseph Jones Cheshire 49518 4654 11th

William E Jones Cheshire 49519 3669

Not Found Cheshire

John H Kenna Cheshire 49521 4251

George Kennedy Cheshire 49522 3978 11th

Ernest J Langley Cheshire 49523 3903 11th

Thomas Leah Cheshire 49524 4406

Amos Light Cheshire 49525 1408 11th

Not Found Cheshire

Stanley D Mairs Cheshire 49527 4098

Frank Maloney Cheshire 49528 4457 11th

Roberts Margetts Cheshire 49529 4657

John Marsh Cheshire 49530 4681

Harold Maulkin Cheshire 49531 4455

Albert Minshall Cheshire 49533 4391

Michael A Moore Cheshire 49534 4590 11th

John Morris Cheshire 49535 4591 11th

Mathew Mulholland Cheshire 49436 3142

Frank Munro Cheshire 49537 4456 11th

James Mycock Cheshire 49538 4660 11th

Henry H Newall Cheshire 49539 4392 11th

James O'Connell Cheshire 49540 4458 11th

James Ogden Cheshire 49541 4089 11th

William O'Neill Cheshire 49542 3201

George Owens Cheshire 49543 4595

William Peet Cheshire 49544 4363 11th

John A Platt Cheshire 49545 4407 11th

Joseph Ponsonby Cheshire 49546 4408

Thomas Ponsonby Cheshire 49547 4613 11th

Not Found Cheshire

Wilfred Price Cheshire 49549 4621 11th

Frederick Pownall Cheshire 49550 4364

Samuel Pownall Cheshire 49551 4620 11th

William Readioff Cheshire 49552 3442 11th

James Reid Cheshire 49553 4324 11th

E Robertshaw Cheshire 49554 49554, 202572, 56242 11th

Thomas E Rogers Cheshire 49555 4428 11th

Arthur E Rouse Cheshire 49556 4410 11th

John Rowbotham Cheshire 49557 4599

John W Rustage Cheshire 49558 49558, 143037

Joseph Ryan Cheshire 49559 4601 11th

William Sampson Cheshire 49560 4665 11th

Richard Scott Cheshire 49561 3983 11th

Not Found Cheshire

Lawrence Shandley Cheshire 49563 4157

James Shaw Cheshire 49564 4001 11th

William Sharratt Cheshire 49565 4325 11th

John F Simpson Cheshire 49566 4685 11th

Albert Smith Cheshire 49567 49567, 143040

Not Found Cheshire

Harold P Smith Cheshire 49569 4279 11th

Wallace Smith Cheshire 49570 4432 11th

Not Found Cheshire

Wilfred Stevenson Cheshire 49572 4121

Not Found Cheshire

Frank L Street Cheshire 49574 4461

John Taberner Cheshire 49575 4623

Not Found Cheshire

George Tarbuck Cheshire 49577 4267

David Taylor Cheshire 49578 3715 13th

Robert Templeton Cheshire 49579 4242

Harry Tomlinson Cheshire 49580 4437

Herbert Topping Cheshire 49581 3728

George Walker Cheshire 49582 4080

James L Watson Cheshire 49583 4345

Kenneth H Webster Cheshire 49584 49584, 423017

Thomas M Whelan Cheshire 49585 4229

Edward Whittaker Cheshire 49586 4346

Joseph Woodhead Cheshire 49587 4395

Frederick Worrall Cheshire 49588 4434

[John_Hartley]

David

Yes, I think you're making reasonable assumptions, based on the evidence you have, about where they came from and where they went.

FWIW, there was a similar batch of 6th Cheshires who arrived in June 1916 and got divvied just about everywhere - not just to other battalions of the Regiment.

John

[droberts]

David

Yes, I think you're making reasonable assumptions, based on the evidence you have, about where they came from and where they went.

FWIW, there was a similar batch of 6th Cheshires who arrived in June 1916 and got divvied just about everywhere - not just to other battalions of the Regiment.

John

John

Thanks very much for your view. This group is one of a number of drafts from 4th that appear to have numerical and alphabetical correlations. As you have observed, drafts from the base depot can also be comprised randomly. So there is no hard and fast rule, just occasional bits of luck.

best regards

David

[Pollexfen]

Hi David

I am new to this Forum and so am unfamiliar with the routines so this is my first posting. I came accross your interest in the 1/4th Cheshire Regiment through a Google search. I am researching old boys of my former school who fell in the war. I have seen the book by Cookenden but would appreciate your advice on anything esle I may be able to discover about any of the following and maybe I have some information from the local paper that might assist you?

Alun Hughes

Burns J H Cheshire Regiment (1st/4th Bn.) E Company Chandler J C Cheshire Regiment Scott Joseph Brayton Cheshire Regiment (10th Bn.) Roberts Gomer S Cheshire Regiment (1st/4th Bn.) Harper J Cheshire Regiment (D Coy 3rd Bn attd 1st Bn)

[JohnSchultz]

I’m completing a biography of my grandfather (Capt GE Schultz), but lack details of his service in the 1^st Cheshire Rifle Volunteers and the 4^th Cheshires. I have a number of unanswered questions that I’d really appreciate any help with, please.

 

1.    I have a 1^st Cheshire Rifle Volunteers badge that I assume was my grandfather’s. I also have a scribbled note suggesting he was commissioned into the Territorial Force on 10/7/1907; but that seems unlikely, as the TF wasn’t formed until 1908. I cannot find any relevant entries in the London Gazette for either year. I assume his initial officer rank was 2^nd Lieutenant; but the London Gazette entry (see below) shows he was a lieutenant by April 1911.

•  

  Is there an alternative record of commissions in both the Rifle Volunteers and the Cheshire territorial battalions for 1907-1911?

 

2.    An entry in the London Gazette shows that, on 1 April 1911, as a lieutenant in the 4^th Cheshires, he was “seconded under the conditions of paragraph 114 of the Territorial Force Regulations”. I know that he emigrated in April 1911 to British Columbia in Canada, but assumed he had resigned his commission first. Can anybody advise me, please, on where I might find:

•  a copy of those regulations?

• a record of which unit he might have been seconded to (presumably in Canada)?

    

3.    After the outbreak of war, he returned to his home town of Birkenhead, in the same month as the 1^st Birkenhead Bantam Battalion (the 15^th Cheshires) was formed. As the War Office left it to the battalion to recruit its own officers (as well as NCOs and other ranks), it will presumably have been my grandfather’s own choice which unit he joined.

• Is there any obvious reason that I’m missing as to why he might have chosen to join a New Army battalion rather than return to the 4^th Cheshires (which were also based in Birkenhead)? If he had rejoined the TF, he would presumably have seen service in Gallipoli in August 1915, five months earlier than his actual arrival in a theatre of war with the bantams in January 1916. Given his choice of rifle volunteers/TF as his hobby, I can’t believe he was battle shy and just wanted to postpone direct involvement in military action.