MC or MM for WOs?

[chrrip]

a 1918 award of the MM to a 5th London CSM together with one of my favourite citations! Awarded the MM when he was a CSM for events when he was a sergeant; the last action referred to was probably the fightingting at Angreau at the beginning of Nov. 18. Plenty of MMs for this action; Colonel probably knew this was the last opportunity to give the man the MM! Is this the answer? CSMs winning the MM when sergeants after all there was at least a 3 month gap between actions & LG dates which widened considerably in 1918

300086 CSM Trehurne F M 11.18 ** General

‚This Warrant Officer came out in November ,1914 ,as a rifleman and served continuously until wounded as a sergeant in December ,1915 .He rejoined the Battalion in January ,1918 ,since when he has done much valuable work as Battalion Lewis gun Sergeant .He has consistently showed great gallantry in action ,ans shown himself to be a soldier of the highest merit .Owing to his position of Lewis gun Sergeant ,he did not take part in the recent fighting and , consequently ,had no opportunity of distinguishing himself .’

[Muerrisch]

erniecrisp thank you.

Now here is a game-changer:

Abbot and Tamplin p 224 " ...........just before the end of the war , 1st and 2nd class warrant officers were made eligible for the medal [MM]. .......... and a number of such awards were then made"

Ref given is : Royal Warrant 16th Aug 1918.

I have found that RW and "it does what it says on the tin".

So, was this regularising previous practice, or were all previous awards of MM to WOs earned when they were of junior rank, that is "non-commissioned officers and men"?

[Muerrisch]

I seem to be muttering to myself but, for posterity, will add here the results of my further research.

Regarding the Great War period, at the outset the only gallantry awards for all those below commissioned officer, WOs [only one class then]. NCOs and men were DCM and a Mention. The latter could be posthumous.

28 Dec 1914 LG 1 Jan 1915: MC instituted, WOs included. Only one class of WO.

28 Jan 1915, Royal Warrant. WO class I and class II created, with the proviso that, wherever "Warrant Officer" occured in pre-existing warrants it refers to WO Class I alone. Thus, WO IIs were disqualified from gaining the MC, so their only medal at that time was DCM whereas a WO I could gain MC or DCM.

LG 5 Apr 1916. MM instituted for NCOs and men . Thus WO II could not qualify, as they were not NCOs by definition**. WO II still only DCM therefore. WO I DCM or MC.

6 Jun 1916 LG 9 Jun. RW specifies that "Warrant Officer" now includes WO Class I and II. Thus WO II now can gain MC or DCM

16 Aug 1918. Supplementary Warrant. MM may be awarded to Warrant Officers Class I and II. Thus, WO II can now gain DCM, MC or MM, as can WO I..

My notes

** this is a moot point and worth further research but that is my belief.

I am not sure if other than substantive rank at the date of the action/deed was used.

Either way, it seems pretty certain that, between recommendations, awards committees and LGs there were exceptions to the above regulations.

Please feel free to disagree, with evidence.

[Gareth Davies]

No Grumpy, you are not muttering to yourself, some of us are listening intently.

[Tyneside Chinaman]

Hi,

CSM Douglas Sandilands 13th East Yorks (T'Others) MC DCM

MC gazetted 1/1/17 DCM 10/1/17.

John

[Muerrisch]

Thank you very much: that is an exact fit for the regulations. Do you happen to have citations please?

[Tyneside Chinaman]

Grumpy

Northumberland Fusiliers

CSM John Drayson MC 1/1/17

CSM Colin Finch DCM MC 18/7/17

RSM John Hodson MC 22/9/16

RSM William Myers DCM MC 2/6/17

CSM George Osborne MC 27/7/17

CSM W Peterkin MC 30/1/20

CSM Frank Thomas Poulter MC 30/3/16

CSM C H Price MC 1/1/17

CSM Anthony Scorer MC 3/6/18

CSM Later RSM John Thompson MC 1/1/18

CSM G Thorneycroft MC 27/7/16

CSM W T Travill MC 25/8/16

1786 CSM A E Bone DCM 11/3/16

19/184 RSM F Burton DCM 21/10/18 (with DLI)

10560 CSM S H Carr MM DCM 3/9/18

292691 CSM A V Draper DCM 23/3/18

22/980 CSM J Duffy DCM 18/7/17

10733 CSM G Eastham DCM 3/9/18 Bar 30/10/18

3/9671 CSM C E Faulkner DCM 22/9/16

3205 CSM P Fawley DCM 10/1/17

265297 RSM C Finch MC MM DCM 3/9/18

61293 CSM J W Finch DCM 28/3/18

240478 CSM R Fletcher DCM 17/4/18

25/955 CSM R E Foster DCM 11/5/17 Bar 18/7/17

87456CSM W G Gadsby DCM 10/1/20

8622 CSM L Gillborn DCM 5/12/18

38102 RSM A S Harle DCM 21/10/18

21/993 CSM R C Henderson DCM 6/2/18

20004 RSM W Henderson DCM 30/10/18

5064 CSM A W Hilton 15/3/16

I wil finish this off later unless Graham pops in

John

[Tyneside Chinaman]

No citation for MC

DCM citation

For conspicuous gallantry in action He assumed command of and handled his company with great courage and determination. He set a splendid example throughout.

I suspect that the DCM was already in the pipeline when the MC was awarded just beating the DCM into the gazette.

John

[Muerrisch]

John, thank you. I have a cracker of an example of a soldier getting the "wrong gong" very early in the war and will post details later. It involves a colour-sergeant awarded the MC when serving as such!

[Muerrisch]

An example of an anomalous reward.

Taken from Abbott & Tamplin British Gallantry Awards.

1. The Military Cross was instituted 28 Dec 1914, for, inter alia ........ Warrant Officers.

Military Cross illustrative award, page 222.

CSM Joseph Barwick, Coldstream Guards. LG 18 Feb 1915, p1691, no citation. Known to be for actions 26^th Oct to 10^th November 1914.

2. At the time of the actions, CSM was an appointment for a colour-sergeant . On 26^th Jan 1915, Army Order 70/1915, CSMs were to join the new rank of Warrant Officer Class II. That order included “ ..........all warrant officers serving as such prior to date shall form Class I., and wherever the words Warrant Officer occur in existing Warrants or Regulations they shall be read as meaning Warrant Officer Class I.

Clearly CSM Barwick was not a WO of any sort at the time of the actions, and indeed not a WO I at the date of the Gazette, which he needed to be if para. 2. above were obeyed.

In fact it was not until 6 Jun 1916 that an amending Warrant was promulgated, adding WO II to potential recipients of the Military Cross. Thus, until that date, any CSM awarded the MC had been so recognised in contravention of the regulations. Barwick should have had a DCM if anything. After 6 Jun 1916 he might have had a DCM or MC, and after 13 Aug 1918 he might also have had to put up with a MM. [supplementary Warrant].

One wonders if there was published advice such as “Notes for submission of honours or awards” or some such: I would dearly love to see any.

[Muerrisch]

Hansard 6 July 1915 may be of interest.

Mr. FORSTER

The object of the institution of the new class of warrant officer was to raise the status of the noncommissioned officer (namely, the squadron, battery or company sergeant-major) who, under the commissioned officer, is immediately responsible for the training and military efficiency of the squadron, battery or company, and I am afraid that it is impossible to extend the promotion to all the noncommissioned officers who were originally of equivalent rank without nullifying the whole effect of the change. It should be remembered that these non-commissioned officers who were not selected are actually in no worse position than they were before, and that their opportunities of advancement to the rank of warrant officer Class I. are in no way diminished.

[squirrel]

FWIW - Instructions Regarding Recommendations For Honours and Awards Military Secretary's Branch 9/18

Military Cross.

Ranks eligible;

a) All officers up to and including rank of Captain.

Officers holding acting or temporary rank of Major whose substantive rank is not higher than that of Captain. (sorry about the Smiley - don't know where that came from)

c) Acting or temporary Chaplains 3rd Class and Chaplains 4th Class.

d) Warrant Officers (classes 1 & 2) holding substantive or temporary not acting rank.

Awarded by: The C,-in-C. under authority delegated by H.M. the King.

Whether evidence of eye-witnesses is necessary - No.

Remarks: For acts of gallantry in the presence of the enemy. Brevet Majors and Temporary Majors who hold no other rank are not eligible for Military Cross. Warrant Officers retiring with a pension are entitled to an additional 6p per day, or on obtaining a Commission, or on discharge without pension, to a gratuity of £20.

Military Medal

Ranks eligible:

Warrant Officers, non commissioned officers and men.

Ladies.

Awarded by:

Corps Commanders or other Officers nominated by C.-in-C. under authority delegated by H.M. the King

Whether evidence of eye-witnesses is necessary - No

Remarks:

For a specific act of gallantry in action or for continuous gallantry during a specified period of active operations.

[Muerrisch]

Tony: please do you have full text of that document? I wonder if there were previous editions?

[squirrel]

David, it's an N & MP reprint - there is no reference to a previous edition.

The wording of the "Remarks" is interesting.

[Muerrisch]

Thanks, ordered in the sale.