Newly arrived at Front in 1917? What was it like?

[Guest Joanne]

Hi there,

I posted my great uncle Hugh Cairns on this forum ealier and found that he was in the 16th Highland Light Infantry and died at Passchendaele when he'd turned 20 years on 2 Dec 1917. However, in the only photo I have of him he was wearing a Royal Scots Fusiliers uniform. Although his service record no longer exists the service medal index indeed says he was in the the 1st Battalion of the RSF (attached No 10 entrenching battalion) before being assigned to the HLI.

His RSF no: was 10395.

His HLI no: was 350220, this (I was informed) suggested that he probably transferred to the HLI in mid 1917.

But I am wondering about being attached to the No: 10 entrenching battalion of the 1st RSF. I know that entrenching battalions are notoriously difficult to research but is there any way of getting an inkling of what Hugh's experience might have been? It strikes me that it must have been a particularly horrific time for a young soldier to arrive in the Trenches. Does anyone know what happened in the entrenching battalions and what their training might have been? How were they different from reserve battalions?

I think it is possible that Hugh joined the RSF either late in 1915 (when he turned 18 years) or early in 1916 (before conscription) - because family legend is adamant that he joined up and was not conscripted. If so what might he have been doing from 1916 until 1917? I would be interested in any ideas or info about these entrenching battalions tor about soldiers joining battalions at the Front in 1917. (I've looked at the Long Long Trail but if there's any more info - please help)

Many thanks again for all the help I've already received. It's definitely taken me a long, long way....feel like I know Hugh now!!!

Joanne

[Adam Harland]

Joanne,

The 10th Bttn RSF were employed at home, and so it is unlikely that Hugh went to France with them.

The 16th HLI were the subject of the surprise German attack on the far end of the western front at Nieuport on 10th July 1917. This was a 'd*mn near run thing', but the enemy were denied overrunning the Yser bridgehead, the small area on the east side of the Yser river held by the allies. It is noteworthy, amongst other things as the first use of mustard gas by the Germans on the noerthern ends of the front.

Although there were plans for an offensive to recapture lost ground, this was rained off in August, and the 16th HLI had a very pleasant summer away from the major fighting 'From August until Novemeber - and Westroosebeke - the lines of the 16th HLI were cast in pleasant places' ( Regt History).

All this ended on the night of 1/12/17 when an assault was made on Westroosebeke ' another attempt to strengthen the unsatisfactory line on Passchendaele Ridge' Surprise was not gained, and heavy casualties occurred. 16 HLI took Void farm and 50 prisoners, and were counter attacked the next day. They were ordered to withdraw from the isolated posts at 5 am the next day. ' At Brake camp the roll call was one of the saddest since 1915. Twenty officers and 469 other ranks went forward at Passchendaele. Eight officers and 204 other ranks now answered their names. More than half the Battalion were casualties....'

Ironically, given your enquiry, the 16th HLI went on to become a Pioneer bttn under the 1918 reorganisation.

Hugh is commerated in the Regt history' A Saga of Scotland: History of the Sixteenth HLI' byT Chalmers (1930).

If Hugh joined the Bttn in mid 1917, and avoided Nieuport, he would have had one of the more pleasant experiences offered by the BEF in the summer of 1917.

Hope that is of some help

Adam

[Guest Joanne]

Joanne,

The 10th Bttn RSF were employed at home, and so it is unlikely that Hugh went to France with them.

The 16th HLI were the subject of the surprise German attack on the far end of the western front at Nieuport on 10th July 1917. This was a 'd*mn near run thing', but the enemy were denied overrunning the Yser bridgehead, the small area on the east side of the Yser river held by the allies. It is noteworthy, amongst other things as the first use of mustard gas by the Germans on the noerthern ends of the front.

Although there were plans for an offensive to recapture lost ground, this was rained off in August, and the 16th HLI had a very pleasant summer away from the major fighting 'From August until Novemeber - and Westroosebeke - the lines of the 16th HLI were cast in pleasant places' ( Regt History).

All this ended on the night of 1/12/17 when an assault was made on Westroosebeke ' another attempt to strengthen the unsatisfactory line on Passchendaele Ridge' Surprise was not gained, and heavy casualties occurred. 16 HLI took Void farm and 50 prisoners, and were counter attacked the next day. They were ordered to withdraw from the isolated posts at 5 am the next day. ' At Brake camp the roll call was one of the saddest since 1915. Twenty officers and 469 other ranks went forward at Passchendaele. Eight officers and 204 other ranks now answered their names. More than half the Battalion were casualties....'

Ironically, given your enquiry, the 16th HLI went on to become a Pioneer bttn under the 1918 reorganisation.

Hugh is commerated in the Regt history' A Saga of Scotland: History of the Sixteenth HLI' byT Chalmers (1930).

If Hugh joined the Bttn in mid 1917, and avoided Nieuport, he would have had one of the more pleasant experiences offered by the BEF in the summer of 1917.

Hope that is of some help

Adam

Hi Adam

Thank you so much for replying, you have been really helpful. I was over at the Highland Fusiliers Museum in Sauchiehall Street this weekend, and for anyone interested in the HLI or RSF it was brilliant, which I'm sure you know.

There was just a couple of things that I'd be grateful for any other thoughts. ...Hugh was in the 1st Battalion of the RSF (attached to no 10 entrenching battalion) ..is that the same as the 10th work's battalion that remained in the UK (and enlisted in Ayr?) It was just that the major at the museum thought that Hugh may have went to France with the RSF and dug trenches basically before being transferred to the HLI. Is that likely?

I am guessing you think Hugh joined the HLI in mid 1917 because of his service number. Would that be right? I had a look at the war diary and drafts of ordinary ranks who were taken as reinforcements in May and June and also in August 1917 (at which point the museum closed!!!) Do you think that Hugh joined the battalion post July ?(In Aug perhaps?) Why was this? How did you know they had a nice summer? (sorry for all the questions!) Which was really nice to hear. (but also sad because he would have died within 3 months of joining them). (My grandad, his brother who was 9 years older he joined earlier and survived the war, as did the other 2 older brothers. I am really interested to know where you obtianed the information. I have Chalmers 'History of the HLI'. But I would be grateful for any other sources.

Thank you for this info..... would be dead grateful for anything else!!!!!

All the best.

Joanne