eviltaxman Posted 24 January , 2010 Share Posted 24 January , 2010 I've just double checked his service papers and there's nothing there either. Looks like he was in hospital from near the end of August '14 so was only in the fight for a couple of weeks. Normally the clasp would have to be applied for... perhaps the medal roll will confirm this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djcrtoye Posted 25 January , 2010 Share Posted 25 January , 2010 Hi, thanks for your information. I've just checked the medal roll of the 11 men on this particular page only 3 received their clasp. All them went to France together. One was kia 2-11-14. Was it just one of those things that happens when you have large amount of men. Dominic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshdoc Posted 25 January , 2010 Share Posted 25 January , 2010 It had to be applied for and 1 day under german fire was enough to qualify. Lots didnt bother to apply for one reason or another and in these cases there would be no mention of the bar on the MIC even if they qualified. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djcrtoye Posted 25 January , 2010 Share Posted 25 January , 2010 Thanks for that. It seems such a simple reason so in other words he couldn't be bothered or simply slip from his mind. Thanks to all. Dominic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NigelS Posted 25 January , 2010 Share Posted 25 January , 2010 ... It seems such a simple reason so in other words he couldn't be bothered or simply slip from his mind. or maybe that he just wasn't aware that he was entitled... NigelS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
per ardua per mare per terram Posted 25 January , 2010 Share Posted 25 January , 2010 The issue of the clasp was botched from the outset: it was an afterthought for a medal that had been designed not to have any clasps. There was also a failure to recognise the problems caused not only by the casualties of WWI, but also by the rapid discharge of serving personnel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 25 January , 2010 Share Posted 25 January , 2010 This "under gunfire" thing is not true: one had to be with one's unit, and the unit had to be within range of enemy mobile artillery between 5 Aug and 22 Nov 1914, and the unit had to be on a long 'approved' list. For an automatic issue, the soldier needed to be not an officer, and serving when the roll was compiled. Quite a lot of hoops to jump through, but being shot at was not one of them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
per ardua per mare per terram Posted 25 January , 2010 Share Posted 25 January , 2010 The "under fire" stipulation is used in some of the official documentation, including the initial Army Order as I recall. The requirement of being within range of enemy mobile artillery was taken as the measure for being "under fire." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 25 January , 2010 Share Posted 25 January , 2010 Yes, the original AO 361/16th October 1919 para 1 '.... actually served under fire .......', but para 4. '....on duty within range of the enemy's mobile artillery ........' By the same token, nobody shot at me in Cyprus 1960-1964, and I was certainly in range of aimed small-arms fire, let alone anything heavier. As witness a Bofors and a Vickers dug in at the bottom of my MQ garden! And we heard plenty of shooting. Not that I got a medal, just a promotion for being in the right place, although it felt like the wrong place! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NigelS Posted 25 January , 2010 Share Posted 25 January , 2010 Were 'Roses' only issued - whether on application or otherwise - to men who were in a position to wear them on ribands on service dress etc (ie still serving)? I have seen the MIC of an officer, where the family claimed his medals posthumously, which clearly states '1914 Clasp only'; another reason for the roses not being issued doesn't immediately come to mind. NigelS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
per ardua per mare per terram Posted 25 January , 2010 Share Posted 25 January , 2010 If his medals were issued posthumously he would not be wearing just the ribbon. For survivors who claimed them they were issued with clasp and roses whether they were serving or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
27thBN Posted 27 January , 2010 Share Posted 27 January , 2010 In Addiction the soldier had to be verified by an Officer or SNCO in his unit that the soldier was within range of mobile enemy fire .There is a great website northeast medals which has the listing for the units that were entitled in mass to the Clasp subject to the verification .I dont know how much this was enforced .but have read it a few times i believe there is a mention of this on the site as well MC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianw Posted 27 January , 2010 Share Posted 27 January , 2010 I seem to recall that 2 roses were the standard issue. This led to some soldiers attaching a rose to the full medal ribbon of their 14 Star in addition to the clasp. They were advised that this was incorrect and should not be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
per ardua per mare per terram Posted 27 January , 2010 Share Posted 27 January , 2010 ...There is a great website northeast medals which has the listing for the units that were entitled in mass to the Clasp subject to the verification... The listing is linked in the thread mentioned in post #10. Unfortunately, it is incomplete as it only lists army units. One of the problems arises from the fact that many of the officers or senior Non Commissioned Officers required to provide verififation were either dead or discharged before it was decided to award the clasp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Crame Posted 12 November , 2014 Share Posted 12 November , 2014 Bloody botch up. A 16th Lancer killed on 12th September 1914 does not have it mentioned on his MIC (Ephraim Deadman). A 16th Lancer wounded and subsequently discharged on 13th September does not have it mentioned either (Frederick Crame - my great grandfather who has a rose sewn on his medal ribbon but no clasp for whatever reason). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bombadier Posted 12 November , 2014 Share Posted 12 November , 2014 Make sure you check both sides of the mic. Not mentioned on the front of my gf's MIC but they are on the back. Nigel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henryww1 Posted 14 July , 2015 Share Posted 14 July , 2015 My grandfather (16th Lancer)had both clasp and rose, but unfortunately it was lost during the Blitz of the docks in Silver town, Essex. Replacements were requested and evidenced prior to the replacements being posted in the 1970`s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now